This Verse Proves NO Such thing as Co-Redemptrix or Co-Redeemers

[kujo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1056458' date='Sep 4 2006, 10:47 AM']
Mary as scripture says played NO ROLE in our REDEMPTION.
[/quote]

I mad a sandwich the other day. Now, obviously the "in-between" ingredients--the coagulated milk, the meat--are an essential part of the sandwich because then you'd just have to boring slices of Wonderbread. Similarly, the meat & coagulated milk, without the bread, doesn't make a sandwich. Basically, each unit has a role (no pun intended), not necessarily an equal one, but a role nonetheless.

That's how I think of Mary...she has a [b]roll[/b] in our salvation in that her [i]fiat[/i] allowed Christ to enter our midst. It is narrow-minded to belittle the fact that a 14-year old poor girl who was not married allowed herself to become impregnanted by the Holy Spirit. She could've been stoned...by her fiance, no less.

Sometimes I don't get Prots....there are things in Catholic dogma that require a little more studying to really believe; however, I have always found that our Catholic faith's teachings on Mary are probably the most easily-accessable.


P.S.- I apologize if my analogy is a bit juvenile...I'm a youth ministry.

[kujo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1056458' date='Sep 4 2006, 10:47 AM']
Mary as scripture says played NO ROLE in our REDEMPTION.
[/quote]

I mad a sandwich the other day. Now, obviously the "in-between" ingredients--the coagulated milk, the meat--are an essential part of the sandwich because then you'd just have to boring slices of Wonderbread. Similarly, the meat & coagulated milk, without the bread, doesn't make a sandwich. Basically, each unit has a role (no pun intended), not necessarily an equal one, but a role nonetheless.

That's how I think of Mary...she has a [b]roll[/b] in our salvation in that her [i]fiat[/i] allowed Christ to enter our midst. It is narrow-minded to belittle the fact that a 14-year old poor girl who was not married allowed herself to become impregnanted by the Holy Spirit. She could've been stoned...by her fiance, no less.

Sometimes I don't get Prots....there are things in Catholic dogma that require a little more studying to really believe; however, I have always found that our Catholic faith's teachings on Mary are probably the most easily-accessable.


P.S.- I apologize if my analogy is a bit juvenile...I'm a youth minister.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1056516' date='Sep 4 2006, 01:11 PM']
God knew who would have said YES or NO....
[/quote]If He knew, then her "yes" to Christ is meaningless. Along with everyone else who says "yes," she just becomes a victim of pre-destination.

[kujo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1056458' date='Sep 4 2006, 10:47 AM']
Mary as scripture says played NO ROLE in our REDEMPTION.
[/quote]

I mad a sandwich the other day. Now, obviously the "in-between" ingredients--the coagulated milk, the meat--are an essential part of the sandwich because then you'd just have to boring slices of Wonderbread. Similarly, the meat & coagulated milk, without the bread, doesn't make a sandwich. Basically, each unit has a role (no pun intended), not necessarily an equal one, but a role nonetheless.

That's how I think of Mary...she has a [b]roll[/b] in our salvation in that her [i]fiat[/i] allowed Christ to enter our midst. It is narrow-minded to belittle the fact that a 14-year old poor girl who was not married allowed herself to become impregnanted by the Holy Spirit. She could've been stoned...by her fiance, no less.

Sometimes I don't get Prots....there are things in Catholic dogma that require a little more studying to really believe; however, I have always found that our Catholic faith's teachings on Mary are probably the most easily-accessable.


P.S.- I apologize if my analogy is a bit juvenile...I'm a youth minister.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Budge' post='1056516' date='Sep 4 2006, 12:11 PM']
God knew who would have said YES or NO....
[/quote]

That's not what I asked......

[Fides_et_Ratio]

Mary already IS Co-Redemptrix.

Quick Latin Lesson: "Co"="WITH"
Thus, Mary is the "woman WITH the Redeemer". She was WITH Jesus from His conception until His sacrificial death on the cross.

Budge, do you agree that Jesus' human flesh came from Mary?

[Budge]

The Mary of Catholicism bears absolutely no resemblance to the Mary of the Bible

The Mary of the Bible would have told you she needed a savior as well, and that to put her on the level with Jesus,[b] WITH[/b], was blasphemy.

It is interesting how Mary gets all these new titles, new doctrines attributed to her, while Jesus is ignored more and more.

This is Collyridian heresy renewed.

You all act as if Mary was running the show, she WAS NOT.

[kujo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1056616' date='Sep 4 2006, 03:59 PM']
The Mary of Catholicism bears absolutely no resemblance to the Mary of the Bible

The Mary of the Bible would have told you she needed a savior as well, and that to put her on the level with Jesus,[b] WITH[/b], was blasphemy.

It is interesting how Mary gets all these new titles, new doctrines attributed to her, while Jesus is ignored more and more.

This is Collyridian heresy renewed.

You all act as if Mary was running the show, she WAS NOT.
[/quote]

1. The term "WITH" means that she was with him in the same way that you are WITH your keyboard and your King James Version of the Bible right now.

2. Read the Magnificat in Luke, brother.

3. Never once has anyone here made mention of Mary "running the show." We are saying that she is not just some peasant girl who stumbled upon pre-destination. She made a choice FOR Christ, just like you make a choice for Christ.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1056616' date='Sep 4 2006, 03:59 PM']This is Collyridian heresy renewed.[/quote]Boy, that's a stretch.

[quote name='Budge' post='1056616' date='Sep 4 2006, 03:59 PM']You all act as if Mary was running the show, she WAS NOT.[/quote]Do you really believe this stuff? Who acts as if Mary was "running the show"?

If you can't maintain a minimal level of honesty in your posts, why should we take dialogue with you seriously?

[stbernardLT]

If Jesus was actually God, then Him being inside mary would make her a tabernacle, the New Ark. Tell the Hebrews the ark has nothing to do [b]with[/b] redemption.

Quick Biology Lesson:
Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. This means that Jesus was once an egg on the ovary of the blessed mother. This also means that she passed on herself to Him, genes and traits. Nine months after she conceived, a baby was born that contained his mother and her heritage. He was half his mother. She nursed Him and gave even more of herself to Him. God knew that she would pass herself on to Him. That is why he chose her. He wanted His son to possess human qualities that he thought would suit a King. We all agree that Jesus died for our sins and that this act alone forgives all sins, but who was Jesus if he didn't consist of part of His mother. Not only was Mary there at the crucifixion, but she was their biologically inside her son, whom she gave life to in the human sense. This therefore not only acknowledges her actions as being part of Gods plan for redemption, but that her very flesh and blood were there in her son as he hung on the cross.

I hope we don't have to go as far as the Maury show to prove this to you.

To deny Mary as part of the redeemer is to deny the redeemer himself.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='Budge' post='1056616' date='Sep 4 2006, 01:59 PM']
The Mary of Catholicism bears absolutely no resemblance to the Mary of the Bible

The Mary of the Bible would have told you she needed a savior as well, and that to put her on the level with Jesus,[b] WITH[/b], was blasphemy.

It is interesting how Mary gets all these new titles, new doctrines attributed to her, while Jesus is ignored more and more.

This is Collyridian heresy renewed.

You all act as if Mary was running the show, she WAS NOT.
[/quote]
You didn't even answer my question. Did Mary give Jesus His human flesh, or not?

[Dave]

[quote name='Budge' post='1056616' date='Sep 4 2006, 03:59 PM']
The Mary of the Bible would have told you she needed a savior as well, and that to put her on the level with Jesus,[b] WITH[/b], was blasphemy.
[/quote]

Of course Mary needed a savior. And Jesus indeed saved her. But unlike everybody else, Jesus saved her in anticipation of His Redemption and thus didn't allow her to even be stained by original sin.

[chris]

Budge I'm on this side of the computer laughing it up because, this whole time all you do is dig yourself a hole you most certainly can't climb out of and then gather enough nerve to say we dont prove you wrong, or answer your questions (although, these so called questions are disguised as hostile accusations). Here is what this is all about. You spew hot chunky protestant propaganda that I used to be a part of. It sickens me that I use to use the same arguments as you do now.

Deny mary, deny all this stuff. Argue against the First Church that Christ created. I will argue with you no more. But, remember this...

[size=5] One day when all the cards are on the table. And you find that these issues are simple you just can't possibly open your mind up for a small debate. And that we at least right one issue and not idol worshiping sons of the whore of babaylon. Then you will be the one offering the apology to the entire catholic theater, you will be the one looking bad. I have seen men in my old protestant churches write pamphlets and books against the Catholic faith. Now he is Catholic and loving it. God did the same for me and the same for Paul when he persecuted Christains. My conversion on the road to Damascus was hard. I hated Catholics and GOD chose the way to shut my mouth. He WILL DO THE SAME TO YOU.[/size]

So don't become to hypocritical, it will come back and bite your right on your faith

Edited September 4, 2006 by Convert4888

[stbernardLT]

It is now plain to see that when it comes to real theological discussions and not accusations, that their point of view gets stomped out rather quickly.

St. Thomas Aquinus pray for us.

[Budge]

[quote]
One day when all the cards are on the table. And you find that these issues are simple you just can't possibly open your mind up for a small debate. And that we at least right one issue and not idol worshiping sons of the whore of babaylon. Then you will be the one offering the apology to the entire catholic theater, you will be the one looking bad. I have seen men in my old protestant churches write pamphlets and books against the Catholic faith. Now he is Catholic and loving it. God did the same for me and the same for Paul when he persecuted Christains. My conversion on the road to Damascus was hard. I hated Catholics and GOD chose the way to shut my mouth. He WILL DO THE SAME TO YOU.
[/quote]

I would be interested.

Show me one thing here you wrote as an anti-Catholic, what kind of church were you in?

Did they teach you to hate Catholics, that was wrong if they did. Christians are to love Catholics as they warn them and tell them the true gospel is about being born again in Jesus Christ.

I would really love to see one of these FORMER writings...

[Eutychus]

[quote]Who acts as if Mary was "running the show"? [/quote]

Sixty million Mexicans, for starters...

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1056858' date='Sep 4 2006, 10:18 PM']
Sixty million Mexicans, for starters...
[/quote]
Wow, they must be hiding pretty well in the Mexican population. I haven't met one of those 60 million yet.

[chris]

[quote]I would be interested.

Show me one thing here you wrote as an anti-Catholic, what kind of church were you in?

Did they teach you to hate Catholics, that was wrong if they did. Christians are to love Catholics as they warn them and tell them the true gospel is about being born again in Jesus Christ.

I would really love to see one of these FORMER writings...[/quote]

Don't act like your in the dark and you dont know. Most main line protestants have no sympathy or interest in anything Roman Catholic. Alot, spend their time trying to disprove Catholic Christians. And no one asks you to show us the true gospel...You came from the true gospel. And like all seperatists who broke from the original claim that they are the original.

[Winchester]

Wow, you know 60 million Mexicans?

That would impress a lot of people.

I'm impressed. You're impressive. Everyone bask in his expansive network of Catholic friend with whom he has intimate aquaintance.

Do you know a billion screaming Chinamen, too, Cletus?

[chris]

There you go again ( You and your counter-part eutcyus)

If you think that my previous article was lableing then take it up with your friend that labels 60 million mexicans supposedly worshiping mary.

[quote]Sixty million Mexicans, for starters...[/quote]

You and eutchuys really know nothing about this. You cut and paste from articles that stand on your side. You dont read the Bible for what it is and your are so into disproving you cant even handle your own understanding of the Bible.