Next Time You Go To Confession

[Budge]

Next time one of you go to your priest, ask him to confess HIS SINS, to you, after all youve emptied your heart and soul, and see what happens…report back here.


True Christian “confession” is supposed to be a TWO-way--no make that THREE-way street...with God and Christians edifying each other in fellowship.

It isn’t supposed to be ONE guy holding all the secrets and hidden sins of a 1000 people.

[b]
Jam 5:16 Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Confess your faults ONE to ANOTHER… [/b]

[Winchester]

Nope, it;s not about that at all. It's about using those secrets against you to extort money!

Muhahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!

[Budge]

Actually they did use it to extort people.

They held the secrets of kings, nobles, and queens.

Don't you know what interdicts are?

[zunshynn]

Jesus hasn't chosen to use me in persona Christi, so telling me his sins wouldn't do anything. I'm not one of those that Jesus gave the command that "what you loose on Earth will be loosed on Earth and what you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven." So to act as if I have been given such a task would be an offense against Our Lord's most holy will.

[rkwright]

[quote name='Budge' post='1057796' date='Sep 6 2006, 12:09 PM']
Next time one of you go to your priest, ask him to confess HIS SINS, to you, after all youve emptied your heart and soul, and see what happens…report back here.
True Christian “confession” is supposed to be a TWO-way--no make that THREE-way street...with God and Christians edifying each other in fellowship.

It isn’t supposed to be ONE guy holding all the secrets and hidden sins of a 1000 people.

[b]
Jam 5:16 Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Confess your faults ONE to ANOTHER… [/b]
[/quote]

That scripture says nothing about being a two way or three way street during confession. It says confess your faults ONE to another.

Priests also attend confession.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Budge' post='1057796' date='Sep 6 2006, 11:09 AM']
Next time one of you go to your priest, ask him to confess HIS SINS, to you, after all youve emptied your heart and soul, and see what happens…report back here.
True Christian “confession” is supposed to be a TWO-way--no make that THREE-way street...with God and Christians edifying each other in fellowship.

It isn’t supposed to be ONE guy holding all the secrets and hidden sins of a 1000 people.

[b]
Jam 5:16 Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Confess your faults ONE to ANOTHER… [/b]
[/quote]

Do you confess your sins to a "1000 people", let alone one, or any at all?

[Anomaly]

Hey Budge! I'm willing to hear your confession. Do you want to do it here, or send me an e-mail privately? I promise I will be as helpful and constructive as God graces me to be.

[jswranch]

Budge,
Pop quiz:

According to Catholicism, what is the most important part of the Sacrament of Reconcilliation? What does that part look like?





Now compare that part to the "Sinner's Prayer."

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='Budge' post='1057796' date='Sep 6 2006, 10:09 AM']
[b]
Jam 5:16 .... The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. [/b]
[/quote]

Tangent alert-

St. Joseph, you are a righteous man, fervently pray for me.

thanks, Budge!

did not know you were giving a class on intercessory prayers and the saints!! :

[Winchester]

My God, there were bad people in the Church?

No!

Oh Lord, no!

You have shaken my faith to its roots!

What's an interdict? Oh no!!!!! (thumbing through CCC.....) Oh my, I'm not the proper clearance for that history!!!!! I'll have to donate more money!!!!!!!

[Farsight one]

"confess your faults one to another"? What you mean like me(one) to priest(another)? I do that, albiet not as often as I'm told I'm supposed to, so I don't see what your problem is.

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1057872' date='Sep 6 2006, 12:00 PM']
My God, there were bad people in the Church?

No!

Oh Lord, no!

You have shaken my faith to its roots!

What's an interdict? Oh no!!!!! (thumbing through CCC.....) Oh my, I'm not the proper clearance for that history!!!!! I'll have to donate more money!!!!!!!
[/quote]
Winchester...

more to your excellent point...now i MAY be wrong, and i hope i do not get 10 lashes on the knuckles from Sr. Mary-Ouch-That-Hurt, but i THINK priests are people... i THINK... i have been told, though i would need to confirm this, the Pope (whom we all worship on our knees by facing west), is human too. I think he sins. i do not mean to further shake your faith to the core, but the people in the Church are ...well... people.


the proper clearance you need is A5k8E11, say that, then a Hail Mary, backwards in Latin.. and you are free and clear to see all the history...



and for the record, and for whatever Bishop is secretly reading and recording this dialouge, Winchester is cool!

[Aloysius]

I have an honest question (just curious as to the way this communist... er... I mean pure equal utopian beautiful confession system works)

When your Christian brother confesses his sins to you, do you ever retain them? Say 'you are not forgiven'?

Jesus breated on His Apostles and told them: "whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, whose sins you retain are thus retained"

what does this verse mean?


good Catholics generally have their cake and eat it to. they have their sets of friends, their spouses, their families, et cetera who they do confess everything to and who confess everything to them... good friendships between which there are no secrets and good marriages in which there are no secrets. But they also go to Christ's Apostles where they can face Christ the Just Judge and Christ the compassionate forgiver in a setting wherein they can get an objective moral guidance to their lives and receive sacramental grace and forgiveness the way Christ offered it, through His apostles.

here is a challenge to you: next time one of your friends is confessing something to you, really probe him for a deep sorrow and a firm purpose of ammendment. if he cannot show you a firm purpose of ammendment then retain his sins, say they are not forgiven. see how well your friendship lasts.

confessions between friends and brother christians are great, but they do not fulfill Christ's requirements for a confessor (that he holds the power to retain the sins, and that the confessing person would respect that apostle of the Lord if he were to say that his sins were retained or if he were to say that thos sins were forgiven)

(nota bene: please take the term 'communist' as completely non-serious tongue-in-cheek)

[Mary-Kathryn]

[quote name='Budge' post='1057796' date='Sep 6 2006, 01:09 PM']
Next time one of you go to your priest, ask him to confess HIS SINS, to you, after all youve emptied your heart and soul, and see what happens…report back here.
True Christian “confession” is supposed to be a TWO-way--no make that THREE-way street...with God and Christians edifying each other in fellowship.

It isn’t supposed to be ONE guy holding all the secrets and hidden sins of a 1000 people.

[b]
Jam 5:16 Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Confess your faults ONE to ANOTHER… [/b]
[/quote]

Now you have me stumped...
You are talking about Confession but are you agreeing with the Sacrament of Confession? Oh, and the priest does go to Confession. Priests don't "hold onto" the secrets and hidden sins of a thousand people. Those are forgiven and gone. Besides, if a priest hears 20 Confessions in one afternoon, there's no way he can, or wants to, remember them all.

As far as asking him to confess his sins to me, its not the appropriate thing to do and I'm not the person he needs to confess to. He has asked for prayers and I gladly do that!

I know, sometimes The Sacraments take time for those who are learning and those of us who are converts. Its alot easier for cradle Catholics who have had The Church all of their lives. Just trust that God knows where He wants His children and let Him lead the way.


Hope your day is a good one
Mary-Kathryn

[Aloysius]

man our Church is so devious... gives people the option to come during a mass offering of confession, kneel behind a screen, disguise their voice if they want to, and they're still somehow getting everyone's secrets out and blackmailing them for it

[Era Might]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1058015' date='Sep 6 2006, 05:16 PM']man our Church is so devious... gives people the option to come during a mass offering of confession, kneel behind a screen, disguise their voice if they want to, and they're still somehow getting everyone's secrets out and blackmailing them for it [/quote]
I like to wear a "Scream" mask and disguise my voice as James Earl Jones. But that's just me.

[img]http://www.cine-studies.net/scream_1.jpg[/img]

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An actual picture of me in Church just before Confession.

[Budge]

[quote]
Do you confess your sins to a "1000 people", let alone one, or any at all?[/quote]

No.

I confess them to fellow Christians as they confess them to me, and that is the way it is to be done.



[quote]Hey Budge! I'm willing to hear your confession. Do you want to do it here, or send me an e-mail privately? I promise I will be as helpful and constructive as God graces me to be.[/quote]

Are you a priest?

I dont need your services.

I have true Christian fellowship in which to share my sins in. I much perfer this rather then to some yawning man following a script.

I do not need a man to forgive my sins...

Hbr 4:16 [size=4]Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy[/size], and find grace to help in time of need.
Confession is even false in the fact that it is based on penance for sin rather then repentance and a true change of heart.


Saying 10 Hail Marys isnt going to change anyone's heart and is a waste of time.
[quote]

confessions between friends and brother christians are great, but they do not fulfill Christ's requirements for a confessor (that he holds the power to retain the sins, and that the confessing person would respect that apostle of the Lord if he were to say that his sins were retained or if he were to say that thos sins were forgiven)[/quote]

The power to retain sins, was given to all born again Christians, not just a special elite cadre of priests.

[CatholicCid]

[quote name='Budge' post='1058027' date='Sep 6 2006, 04:36 PM']
I confess them to fellow Christians as they confess them to me, and that is the way it is to be done.

[color="#CC0000"]Since you do not recognize our Priest for what they are, are we not just confessing our sins to a fellow Christian? And he confesses his sin to another fellow Christian (another Priest) ect...[/color]


Confession is even false in the fact that it is based on penance for sin rather then repentance and a true change of heart.
[color="#CC0000"]?[/color]


I do not need a man to forgive my sins...
[/quote]
Then why confess them to your fellow Christians?

[Budge]

For edification, prayer and support

And its a true exchange too, not scripted to death, not rote. A REAL conversation. Not a job. Not some guy hoping youll hurry up, because there are 10 others waiting in line and he's got Mass to get ready for in 20 minutes.

Christian fellowship is important in a born again believer's life.

[Farsight one]

[quote name='Budge' post='1058027' date='Sep 6 2006, 05:36 PM']
I confess them to fellow Christians as they confess them to me, and that is the way it is to be done.[/quote]Is not a priest a fellow christian? Then we, too are following your method. The difference being that we are taking a more strict and careful approach. The ability to retain anonimity in confession(by confessing to a priest who will take what is told them to the grave) helps to encourage one to be sure to confess EVERYTHING and to not be too embarassed or ashamed to admit certain sins. Do you confess every sin you commit to your friends and family?

[quote]
I have true Christian fellowship in which to share my sins in. I much perfer this rather then to some yawning man following a script. [/quote]Is that your reasoning? You do it that way because you prefer it? Sorry to sound rude, but that is a horrible reason. NEVER adapt your faith to meet your personal preference and habits. Adapt your habits so that they will not violate your faith.

[quote]I do not need a man to forgive my sins...[/quote]
I'd need some help on how to exactly word this, but Catholics believe that the priest is the temporary earthly representation of God. A conduit for speaking to God if you will. And thus, by confessing to a priest, we are in turn confessing to God, who will forgive.

I must clarify - no, we do not believe that the priest is God. I fear my wording is badly presented.

[quote]Hbr 4:16 [size=4]Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy[/size], and find grace to help in time of need.[/quote]
Could you be so kind as to explain what that has to do with confessing sins? If you wish to interpret the bible as literally as possible, then this line cannot possible have anything to do with confessing sins.
[quote]
Confession is even false in the fact that it is based on penance for sin rather then repentance and a true change of heart. [/quote] No. If a priest feels that the confessor is not truly sorry and repentant for their sins, then they are not forgiven them and told to come back when they are sorry.
[quote]Saying 10 Hail Marys isnt going to change anyone's heart and is a waste of time.[/quote] As should be obvious by my statement above: The prayers are not "assigned" unless the priest feels that the confessor is sorry for their sins. Penance is not there to change a persons heart.
[quote]The power to retain sins, was given to all born again Christians, not just a special elite cadre of priests.
[/quote]It was not given to a special elite cadre of priests, but it was given to a special elite cadre of born again Christians? That doesn't add up. Where does it say that? Heck, the concept of "born again Christian" didn't even exist until the bible was long completed, so how it mentions that born again Christians have the power to retain sins when it was written before they even existed is beyond me.