Did Peter's Betrayal Of Christ Make Him Not An Apostle?

[Winchester]

The title says it all.

[Era Might]

No. He was an Apostle because he lived and walked with Christ as one of the chosen 12. Nothing could change that.

[Winchester]

But here we have this man, chosen by Jesus Himself, the Son of God, and yet he fails in courage and faith. A momentary slip, granted, but still he fails.
Is not the Son of God wise?
How shocking, that one of His Apostles should fail Him.

[MIKolbe]

Winchester... think you forgot this... </facetious>

[Winchester]

There is a method. I'm merely questioning here, but thank you for reminding me to avoid scandal.

[MIKolbe]

if this helps...

Peter was the only person to be addressed as "satan" by Jesus.

[Winchester]

True. And he later was rebuked by a fellow apostle.

And yet, Christ chose him...

And he didn't stop being human.

Kinda makes you wonder.

[MIKolbe]

you mean Jesus can use imperfect beings to perpetual His Perfect Church?

i think you have gone too, too far!!

[Anomaly]

[quote name='MIkolbe' post='1058501' date='Sep 7 2006, 02:12 PM']
you mean Jesus can use imperfect beings to perpetual His Perfect Church?

i think you have gone too, too far!![/quote]It's gone too far. There is no such thing as a Perfect Church on earth.

[Era Might]

Not only is the Church perfect, but she's sinless.

Her children are not, however.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1058505' date='Sep 7 2006, 02:16 PM']
Not only is the Church perfect, but she's sinless.

Her children are not, however.
[/quote]Illogical symantic games, and not true. If humans are the Church too, then the Church cannot be perfect. The Catholic Church is not some floating golden perfect cloud as if it is a 'God'.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1058508' date='Sep 7 2006, 03:18 PM']Illogical symantic games, and not true. If humans are the Church too, then the Church cannot be perfect. The Catholic Church is not some floating golden perfect cloud as if it is a 'God'.[/quote]
No, not God, but the spotless Bride of God.

[quote]The Church is holy: the Most Holy God is her author; Christ, her bridegroom, gave himself up to make her holy; the Spirit of holiness gives her life. Since she still includes sinners, she is "the sinless one made up of sinners." Her holiness shines in the saints; in Mary she is already all-holy.

--CCC, #867[/quote]

[Anomaly]

Oye. That's what it claims, but not what it is since it is completly non-sensical. Made Holy by Christ, yes. The 'sinless one' made of up sinners, not hardly without a might twisting of logic and reason and a muddy and misapplied description. Christ is sinless and is part of the Church. Humans are sinful and are part of the Church. To generally claim the Church is sinless, is a misnomer at best.

[Era Might]

The Church is one flesh with its bridegroom, who happens to be the Son of God. The Church is the Mystical Body of Christ. This is why, when Our Lord appears to St. Paul in Acts, he asks him, "Why are you persecuting me"? He makes no distinction between himself and his Church, and identifies himself as his Church. The Body of Christ cannot be sinful. In the same way that Christ is eternal yet human, so his Church is spotless but made up of sinners.

[thessalonian]

Hophni and Phineas were said to be priests of the Lord even though they were having sex with virgins in the doorway of the tent of the meeting. Jesus never denied Judas's being an apostle and he was not replaced until after his death even though way back in John 6 we are told "one of you is a devil". Ordination is not dependent on the good behaior of the man. Your question would apply to popes and priests and bishops as well if the theory you are basing it on were correct. It is not.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1058546' date='Sep 7 2006, 03:28 PM']
The Church is one flesh with its bridegroom, who happens to be the Son of God. The Church is the Mystical Body of Christ. This is why, when Our Lord appears to St. Paul in Acts, he asks him, "Why are you persecuting me"? He makes no distinction between himself and his Church, and identifies himself as his Church. The Body of Christ cannot be sinful. In the same way that Christ is eternal yet human, so his Church is spotless but made up of sinners.
[/quote]
**buzzer**
The Church has two natures, not one, just as Jesus has a human and divine nature. Immortal, but able to be crucified. All powerful, but subject to the evil of others. Sinless, but capable of sin.

[Era Might]

The Church, like Christ, has two natures, but she is one Divine person, because her soul is God himself, the Holy Spirit. A nature cannot sin; only a person can, and this is why the Church is sinless. The Church is made up of sinners, but the Mystical Body of Christ is a sinless and perfect society, because she has God himself as her author.

[Budge]

Peter repented.

When are your Popes, Cardinals and rest going to repent?

Some died never doing so.

Edited September 8, 2006 by Budge

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1058555' date='Sep 7 2006, 03:38 PM']
The Church, like Christ, has two natures, but she is one Divine person, because her soul is God himself, the Holy Spirit. A nature cannot sin; only a person can, and this is why the Church is sinless. The Church is made up of sinners, but the Mystical Body of Christ is a sinless and perfect society, because she has God himself as her author.
[/quote]
Dude. You mean your 'mythical' Body of Christ is a perfect society here on earth. Like you said, the Church includes people. People are sinners, the Church errs and sins.

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1058834' date='Sep 7 2006, 09:06 PM']
Dude. You mean your 'mythical' Body of Christ is a perfect society here on earth. Like you said, the Church includes people. People are sinners, the Church errs and sins.
[/quote]

Dude. By your logic, Jesus would not be able to establish the Church that he DID establish in Mt 16:17-19

Why are you calling Jesus a liar? Are you saying he is incapable of doing something he did? Or did we Catholics smudge that part of the Bible? Or maybe Jesus was kidding? Pick one of those options, or make one up...either way, your logic is flawed.