Did Peter's Betrayal Of Christ Make Him Not An Apostle?

[Winchester]

I don't think the Roman Rite alone has had bad guys. Surely the other Rites had problems.

I forgot how devoted you are to the Ukrainian Rite.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Budge' post='1058988' date='Sep 8 2006, 07:27 AM']
Would you have followed Judas after he sold Jesus out for the 30 pieces of silver and NEVER repented?

Christians are to hold their Christian leaders to a standard.

If I went to my Baptist church, and my preacher started preaching things against the Bible--interfaith, and anythying else, and refuse to repent after exortations from the deacons and church bodies, he would be removed. If he wasnt removed and somehow retained power over the church, no one should keep him as a pastor anymore.

This isnt happening in the Catholic Church, you poor folks are stuck with false leaders, and even Catholics {like Roman Catholic Faithful} admit that things have gotten more and more rotten. Jesus never intended for people to remain under wolves. He warned of them for a reason. Your church heirarchy formed many traditions of your church that are not Biblical to retain their own power.

Some of you think I am terrible to point out a few sinners, the problem with your clergy, it has stepped way beyond the point of a few sinners. There isnt ONE living bishop or Cardinal except in the Trad movement that has spoken AGAINST interfaithism and other deceptions within your church. NOT one bishop in the entire world went against the rules from the top, regarding the sex scandals--ie go against command to keep silent.

I will not follow men...and the apostles preached we should obey God rather then men, that teach false doctrines, and interfaithism. Jesus preached judged by the fruits.

The Catholic Church keeps its power over you by wrongly telling you that they are the ONE TRUE CHURCH. The one true church is all believers born again in Jesus Christ. I feel sorry for Catholics because more and more they know their leadership is corrupt and becoming more and mroe rotten by the minute, and I dont know how many Catholic blogs, I go to where Catholics wring their hands about the horribleness and false teachings of many of their Cardinals, bishops and Popes, sadly many of you have been indoctrinated into thinking the Vatican holds a monopoly on Christ's church which it does not.

That is why in Revelation, there are those warnings about a counterfeit church.

Many of you would make great Christians outside the bondage of Rome.
[/quote]
Judas remained one of the Twelve, even after he had chosen to betray Christ. Christ knew what Judas what was up to, yet He did not immmediately expell Judas from the Apostles after he had made this decision.

Since you claim to base to base everything on Scripture, you might want to use Scripture as your authority, rather than what your baptist church does.

The Parable of the Wheat ande Cockle comes to mind. (Matt. 13:24-30)
[quote]Another parable he proposed to them, saying: The kingdom of heaven is likened to a man that sowed good seed in his field. But while men were asleep, his enemy came and oversowed cockle among the wheat and went his way. And when the blade was sprung up, and had brought forth fruit, then appeared also the cockle. And the servants of the good man of the house coming said to him. "Sir, didst thou not sow good seed in thy field? Whence then hath it cockle?" And he said to them: "An enemy hath done this." [b]And the servants said to him: "Wilt thou that we go and gather it up?" And he said: "No, lest perhaps gathering up the cockle, you root up the wheat also together with it." Suffer both to grow until the harvest, and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers: Gather up first the cockle, and bind it into bundles to burn, but the wheat gather ye into my barn[/b][/quote]

Christ never promised that all members of His Church on earth would be sinless. (And I have yet to see evidence that Baptists are without sin.)

[Budge]

[quote]Christ never promised that all members of His Church on earth would be sinless. (And I have yet to see evidence that Baptists are without sin.)[/quote]

The Bible teaches that reprobates and false preachers are to be removed from the church body...

why doesnt the Catholic church follow this? Instead they have the corrupt and reprobate running the show.


1Cr 5:6 Your glorying [is] not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

1Cr 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

[Winchester]

We don't ever kick them out, you're absolutely right. We should learn from all the non-Catholic Churches, since they never have scandals and are perfect.

There's a big movement in the Church to do that whole becoming perfect thing, but the Cardinals are too busy taking junkets to Vegas and putting subliminal donation requests on EWTN.

[Winchester]

We don't ever kick them out, you're absolutely right. We should learn from all the non-Catholic Churches, since they never have scandals and are perfect.

There's a big movement in the Church to do that whole becoming perfect thing, but the Cardinals are too busy taking junkets to Vegas and putting subliminal donation requests on EWTN.

[Budge]

[quote]We don't ever kick them out, you're absolutely right. We should learn from all the non-Catholic Churches, since they never have scandals and are perfect.
[/quote]

Where have I claimed that non-Catholic churches are perfect?

When a minister of a Christian church goes bad, it is far easier to remove them, you poor folks are stuck with whoever the bishop wants to leave you stuck with. What are you going to do write letters? And then Catholics are taught to stay Catholic no matter what even if the only Catholic church in their community is sinking into a morass of New Age and the priest is an active homosexual.
[quote]


There's a big movement in the Church to do that whole becoming perfect thing, but the Cardinals are too busy taking junkets to Vegas and putting subliminal donation requests on EWTN.[/quote]

Actually having seen the type of hotels the Cardinals visit and the fact even many Catholic bishops live in mansions, I would be surprised if some of your Cardinals, and bishops have taken junkets to Vegas. After all gambling isnt a sin in the Catholic Church.

[Seven77]

[quote name='Budge' post='1060116' date='Sep 10 2006, 07:53 AM']

Actually having seen the type of hotels the Cardinals visit and the fact even many Catholic bishops live in mansions, I would be surprised if some of your Cardinals, and bishops have taken junkets to Vegas. After all gambling isnt a sin in the Catholic Church.


[/quote]

Bishops opposing caisino gambling:

[url="http://www.flacathconf.org/Publications/BishopsStatements/Bpst1990/B5c3d414.htm"]http://www.flacathconf.org/Publications/Bi...90/B5c3d414.htm[/url]

[quote]There is historical and anecdotal evidence that casino gambling is accompanied by vice and social evils. The impact of casino or riverboat gambling on low and moderate income families and individuals; on those for whom gambling becomes a compulsive behavior; on neighborhoods, housing patterns and the homeless; and on public morality in general are all concerns which must be considered in connection with these proposed constitutional amendments.[/quote]

[Winchester]

[quote name='Budge' post='1060116' date='Sep 10 2006, 08:53 AM']
Where have I claimed that non-Catholic churches are perfect?

When a minister of a Christian church goes bad, it is far easier to remove them, you poor folks are stuck with whoever the bishop wants to leave you stuck with. What are you going to do write letters? And then Catholics are taught to stay Catholic no matter what even if the only Catholic church in their community is sinking into a morass of New Age and the priest is an active homosexual.
Actually having seen the type of hotels the Cardinals visit and the fact even many Catholic bishops live in mansions, I would be surprised if some of your Cardinals, and bishops have taken junkets to Vegas. After all gambling isnt a sin in the Catholic Church.


[/quote]

You are continuously pointing out people violating (or appearing to violate) Church law nd morality. It's rather pointless. There's no debate, just an endless stream of articles and some derogatory comment. It doesn't actually attack the Church herself, but the people who claim to be leading her.

Actually, yes, you write letters. You can also leave the parish and go to another. Jesus did not tell people to stop being Jewish. The parish might be sinking into the morass, but the Church's teachings don't change, nor does the priest lose his faculties.

I wouldn't be surprised, either.

And gambling (within moderation) is not a sin in any of the other Rites of the Church, either.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Budge' post='1060116' date='Sep 10 2006, 07:53 AM']
Where have I claimed that non-Catholic churches are perfect?

When a minister of a Christian church goes bad, it is far easier to remove them, you poor folks are stuck with whoever the bishop wants to leave you stuck with. What are you going to do write letters? And then Catholics are taught to stay Catholic no matter what even if the only Catholic church in their community is sinking into a morass of New Age and the priest is an active homosexual.
[/quote]
Priests can be defrocked, or removed from parishes and made to do penance in isolation. The Fifth Lateran Council decreed that priests who engaged in sodomy be removed from office, and handed over to be punished by the civil authorities.
Personally, I would like to see more action taken with this regards myself, but there are proper procedures for doing such things.
If we have a democratic system, whereby priests/pastors can simply be hired and fired on the whims of an individual congregation, this is no guarantee of ensuring truthful teaching and good leadership.

What's to prevent a liberal-leaning congregation from voting to get rid of good Pastor Joe because they don't like the fact that he opposes abortion and homosexuality, for instance, and electing someone who agrees with their own liberal views, and will happily perform gay marriage ceremonies and goddess-worship seminars as they desire?

This is indeed the situation in the thousands of non-Catholic denominations, where people can simply find a pastor who tells them what they want to hear, whether it be looney-liberal or ultra-conservative, or anything in between. (And if you can't find a church which teaches your own particular views, simply start your own!)

Edited September 11, 2006 by Socrates