Inferior Rite

[dabukthumpa]

Whether or not you think the Novus Ordo Mass of Pope Paul VI is inferior to the Tridentine Mass of Pope St. Pius V.

[p0lar_bear]

While we may have a preference of rites, it is not legitimate to pit one against another or to judge one to be "inferior" to the other. This is true of the Eastern rites, the Ambrosian rite, the Mosarabic rite of Toledo, the rite of Braga, the Carthusian rite, the Anglican rite (in the Catholic Church), etc., etc., as well as the Tridentine Rite and the current Latin Rite.

Edited January 9, 2004 by p0lar_bear

[dabukthumpa]

It is perfectly ok to hold one Rite Inferior to another in regards to the exterior elemants of the Holy Mass itself. It is perfectly ok to hold that the Traditional Latin Mass of the Holy Catholic Church is Aesthetically more beautiful than the Novus Ordo Mass. However, I will conclude that both are valid forms of the Mass. But the simplified manner in which the Novus Ordo Mass is said and performed is inferior.

Thanks for the reply too! I hope more people vote.

Dominus Vobiscum

[cmotherofpirl]

We do not pit one rite against another, that is not Catholic.

[p0lar_bear]

Those "exterior elements" are matters of preference, not objective good. I personally think the Byzantine Liturgy is more beautiful than the Roman Rite (Tridentine or Current), but that doesn't mean that the Byzantine Rite is superior.

Edited January 9, 2004 by p0lar_bear

[BLAZEr]

Do you mean a Tridentine mass that is offered in a hurry with no one responding with no music in an ugly chapel where the priests mumbles all the latin incoherrently?

And do you mean a Novus Ordo offered in Latin with beatiful sacred music and reverence with a congregation of one heart prayerfully assisting at the mass where much incense and silence is used to punctuate the points in the mass?

if those are my options then yes, I would say that the Tridentine mass would be aesthetically inferior.

[cmotherofpirl]

::

[dabukthumpa]

There has been no pitting one right agains the other. Both rites bring about the same ends for the Church. Yet, as I have already said, Aesthetically speaking - one may be inferior to the other.

[cmotherofpirl]

'may" is the operative word.

Any Mass done well is a good Mass.

[dabukthumpa]

How often do you find a Novus Ordo Mass that contains all those criteria first of all? Few and far between - I would say. However - I am strictly looking at the forms themselves. I would add that the Traditional prayers, music and form of the Traditional Latin right are superior to those of the simplified Novus Ordo Mass. Without doubt - and with onslaught of papal document since Vatican II - the rise of the Novus Ordo Mass has brought serious abuses - and in many areas - a general lack of the sense of the Sacred.

[dabukthumpa]

I am not saying that any Mass (Novus Ordo) done well is not good.

[dabukthumpa]

I would have to argue that anything containing true beauty - is an objective good - even if it is being applied to subjective elements of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

[BLAZEr]

What it sounds like is that you are a traditionalist who would like to start some arguments and, ahem, I'm not biting.

You like the Tridentine mass, fine. I do to. No one cares.

Do you love the Pope? Do you adhere to his authority? Do you submit to the Second Vatican Council and its teachings?

That's the most important thing.

[jasJis]

I am not saying that any Mass (Novus Ordo) done well is not good.

And what would you say of any Mass, Novus Ordo or Tridentine, done poorly?

[p0lar_bear]

I think we should all use the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom , it's beautiful and far more ancient than the Tridentine...

[dabukthumpa]

I attend daily Novus Ordo Mass - However it is amazing how many differnt ways - and many time how many unexcusable liturgical abuses occur. This is dishearting and makes me very sad. But for the sake of the poll let me keep topic. Attending the Tridentine Mass on Sunday's - the manner in which the Mass is Prayed by all, the music, and the depth of the prayers, and the manner in which we recieve the Blessed Sacrament - I still argue - is much more superior Aesthetically.

[dabukthumpa]

Any Mass done poorly - and with disobedience hurts the whole Church.

Mass no matter what form - is the Most Sacred Act of the Church - it demands respect - and a pius disposition of heart, soul, mind and body.

[dabukthumpa]

I love the Pope, I adhere to His teachings, and all the Dogmatic Councils (including Vatican II) and every Doctrine of the Catholic Church I have as my authority.

Don't get me wrong I am not against any of these.

[cmotherofpirl]

Good, so you have your personal opinon and we have ours.

[p0lar_bear]

Any Mass done poorly - and with disobedience hurts the whole Church.

Mass no matter what form - is the Most Sacred Act of the Church - it demands respect - and a pius disposition of heart, soul, mind and body.

Refering to the Mass as far inferior, etc., hardly demonstrates much respect...