Carthusian Nuns

[Emile James]

[quote name='HisChild' post='1159475' date='Jan 8 2007, 08:45 PM']
Aren't the Euro monasteries so beautiful? Now I just need to learn a foreign language, become fluent and then go apply some place. LOL Is that as vain as choosing a community for its habit? Seriously, though. . .aren't these old brick monasteries and chapels just amazing?
[/quote]

Glory to Jesus Christ!
yes they are, i have been very fortunate to have lived and travelled through allot of Christian/Monastic Europe....sigh the faith lived in Communities has been there for almost 2,000 years so,,even when things are collapsing,flame dieing out in the local towns one need just grab Holy tradition and blow on the embers... as far as language...all you need are the basics, an aptitude..childlikeness..and jump in to the environment for a minimum 3 months..thats a great way to learn another language.
for me, the singing, Divine Office, prayers sound allot better flowing in Romance-latin tongues.and Slavic...besides the translations from latin are much more faithful..
sigh again..
hmmmm
we should start a religious communities.. ....picture thread!:[b]
Cistercian Nuns[/b] -Abbey Sainte Marie de Boulaur,France (31 Nuns)
[i]i stayed in the guest house off property for a weekend...awesome..i couldn't seem them much, but if i caught a glimpse of a Sisters face . from the side at adoration..always glowing..[/i] of course thee pics are from various sources..
[img]http://www.boulaur.org/fp/images/bo-schol.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.boulaur.org/fp/images/15-08.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.boulaur.org/fp/images/15-08bis.jpg[/img][img]http://www.boulaur.org/fp/images/oct%20CD%20pto%20038.jpg[/img]
Mother Abbess Blessing Fields and Animals
[img]http://www.boulaur.org/fp/images/IMG_0297_2.JPG[/img]
ON THIs PAGE click on pics to see the BEAUTIFUL FLOWERS PLACED on the PATHWAY BY THE SISTERS FOR their Corpus Christi Bless. Sacrament PROCESSION .
[url="http://www.boulaur.org/fp/galerie%20photo%2029-5-05.htm"]http://www.boulaur.org/fp/galerie%20photo%2029-5-05.htm[/url]
being a guy, i nevr had any interaction except with an extern, but i could feel the peace, joy..and the singing for the Office wonderful..they have a cd too.
If ther is a way, i will upload an MP3 of it..somewhere?? somehow..
Peace, E-J.
[img]http://www.boulaur.org/fp/images/IMG_0121.JPG[/img]
MORNING CHAPTER MEETING
[img]http://farm1.static.flickr.com/9/69735771_9858eb8670.jpg[/img]
[img]http://farm1.static.flickr.com/12/69734910_f634914681.jpg[/img]
Of course they have work habits (blue) but not for the haying:)
[img]http://farm1.static.flickr.com/12/69733526_fed02f6c27.jpg[/img]
ok ill stop now..

Edited January 9, 2007 by Emile James

[Jennifer]

Beautiful pics... thanks for sharing.....Emile... you are sooooooo clever.

[Chiquitunga]

This is a very specific question, but maybe Emile James would know. Do the Carthusians allow Coffee or other caffeinated drinks, like tea? - as Bethlehem only allows herbal tea ..

Also, are the Carthusians Papally Enclosed? Are the nuns? Do they have visiting parlors and grills? I know they have the walk every week, but I believe that's on monastery grounds. But the long walk once a year, in the book [i]An Infinity of Little Hours[/i], the monks walk outside the monastery grounds .. just wondering ..

Edited January 11, 2007 by Margaret Clare

[Chiquitunga]

Here's something on the Carthusian site, that says the only time the monks will go out is for an occasional walk - [url="http://www.chartreux.org/en/path.htm"]A Carthusian Path[/url].
I'm still not sure if they have Papal Enclosure or not, but they are definitely a very enclosed type of order ..

Here are the Italian nuns at the seashore on one of their walks. :j

[img]http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/1971/seashorecarthusiannunstw1.jpg[/img]

[Emile James]

[quote name='Margaret Clare' date='Jan 11 2007, 01:53 PM' post='1161698']
This is a very specific question, but maybe Emile James would know. Do the Carthusians allow Coffee or other caffeinated drinks, like tea? - as Bethlehem only allows herbal tea ..

Also, are the Carthusians Papally Enclosed? Are the nuns? Do they have visiting parlors and grills? I know they have the walk every week, but I believe that's on monastery grounds. But the long walk once a year, in the book [i]An Infinity of Little Hours[/i], the monks walk outside the monastery grounds .. just wondering ..
[/quote]
-----------------------
Glory to Jesus Christ!
. well, as i understand it ,Papal Enclosure, is only for womens Communities.
Trying to translate the fantastic Italian site on the Nuns, it doesn't seem they are officially Papal Enclosure, yet being a Papal order(as opposed to diocesan),they have strict enclosure due to the constitutions.
ill check more regarding nuns, but since no one can visit the Carthusian Brothers, (except men on vocation discernment week),unless you are the parents, once a year, the idea you are dead to the world.ever phot i have seen, and readings i think that when ones parents visit no grill, but a parlor.
years ago, many many years ago, they didnt have any visitors , even family, ever...a complete break.

[/quote]After solemn profession or perpetual donation, the nuns may receive virginal consecration. It is a solemn rite by which the Church establishes the virgin in a special state of belonging to God. The Carthusian nuns have kept this rite as a concrete sign of the call which the Lord addresses to the Carthusian Order, to lead a life totally consecrated to Him. The offering that the nun makes to God of her virginity within this consecration opens her to a special outpouring of the Holy Spirit.[/quote]

The most complete break, with the society at large, even ones family, and still live in a solitude that is supported by Community, that would only be the Carthusians, though the few Sisters of Bethlehem called to a more eremetic solitude in 'The Upper house" would be the same i think.
The Grande Chartreuse, they do go for that yearly vary far walk and hike, in the movie "Into Great Silence" a wonderful part is when the monks climb waaay up the Chartreuse, and slide down on their feet/backs, in full habit.Definitely off Monastery grounds
the best is the African Novice, tumbling/falling /screaming all the way down.
yet the Grande Chartreuse has a huge.,part of the mountain, boundaries marked by large stones with red crosses and a shape of a church . we thought we would be hiking in the middle of nowhere then suddenly youd come upon one.


coffee...i would be very surprised if the Carthusians did not allow coffee etc, . esp. in Italy.
again its not so much allowance per rules..as a desire to have a well balanced healthy /pure /body, mind, spirit

While knowing the Bethlehem Community is more flexible in each persons personal spiritual growth, i know that while in Italy, the brothers kept me supplied with Italian coffee, without me ever asking, i mean, hey, its italy, and men...no coffee? unthinkable
The French arent so into coffee, and the Community of Bethlehem in General (in fact most every French Monstic community i know) is really into homeopathy and naturapathy, which i do find odd since, because this is in most French culture, we dont have this as normal. all the pharmacies in France have a homeopathy/naturapathy section, and normal MD s prescribe those litte bits of arsenic wrapped up in a sugar ball..
The French Community does see caffiene and alcohol as excitents and not helpful to a balanced mind/body/spirit for contemplation...i, with my one morning cup..tend to agree.

in english is it Community's or Communities? i never get that...
sorry for such a long response..
The walk lasts a whole afternoon, when the monks may be seen walking in pairs through the surrounding countryside. Every 20 minutes or so they swap and pair up with someone else. Once a year they are driven out to some isolated area for a walk lasting all day and including a picnic.

"They are permitted to write four letters per year and may receive letters at the discretion of the Father Prior. Their family can visit once per year for up to three days and relatives can stay at a guest house in the grounds of the monastery.

Apart from such family visits the Carthusians, unlike other monastic Orders, do not normally offer hospitality, and anyone wishing to make a visit must have a valid reason for doing so and needs to apply well in advance for special permission. Men only, of course."....now this refers to ParkMinister, which has a bit more 'relaxed' policies say, then Grande Chartreuse or my personal favourite in [url="http://www.kartuzija-pleterje.si/index_carthusians.htm"]SLOVENIA[/url].
each branch has its own organization and particular government, with a separated General Chapter, presided over by the Prior of Grande Chartreuse who is also the Father General of the Order.

each carthusian house in each Country/Culture will have variations on basic living .

[quote]Nevertheless, the carthusian nun is not a pure hermit. She rejoins her sisters on certain occasions. For that reason, her cell opens onto a cloister leading to community places: the Church, the Chapter room, the library, the refectory. On Sundays and Feast days, the reunions are more frequent and greater emphasis is given to the comfort and joy which the family life offers. On such days, the nuns have lunch together in the refectory, after having sung the office of Sext in the Church. Terce and None are also sung in the Church. Moreover, they have a community recreation for friendly encounter, discussion and fraternal sharing. In addition they meet once a week for a walk of 3-4 hours along mountain paths and countryside. They walk habitually in pairs, thus permitting more personal exchanges. Except for this walk, the nuns remain always within the enclosure, which "creates a space of separation, solitude and silence where one can seek God more freely and where one lives only for Him and Him alone" (Verbi Sponsa 5). These different fraternal encounters favour the unfolding and the union of hearts, sustain mutual affection and help all to live more fruitfully in solitude.[quote]


and here you can read , if you haven't already, [url="http://www.chartreux.org/en/texts.html"]The Statutes of The Order[/url]

Edited January 12, 2007 by Emile James

[Emile James]

The Italian Nuns Site
[url="http://www.vedana.certosini.info/"]http://www.vedana.certosini.info/[/url]
[img]http://www.vedana.certosini.info/images/03.1.jpg[/img]

[url="http://www.vedana.certosini.info/galleria_fotografica1.htm"]http://www.vedana.certosini.info/galleria_fotografica1.htm[/url]

[Emile James]

Glory to Jesus Christ..
i managed to squish this file down to 1/4 of its original to fit on Youtube
peace and goodness...

[b]Monastic Community of Bethlehem, the Assumption of the Virgin Mary,and St Bruno."
[/b]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeaKEsFlGAk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeaKEsFlGAk[/url]
a meditation with sound...

[Emile James]

Into Great Silence
French version Trailer of carthusian Monks at Grande Chartreuse-alps

[url="http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=2186838222580248402&q=dans+le+grand+silence"]http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=218...e+grand+silence[/url]

[Emile James]

photo of the expulsion of the Carthusians at the Grande Chartreuse by the Government and Miltia of France in 1903, in the development of the Law 1905, of suppresiion of all Monasteries/abbeys that are not socially beneficially, reasonable,republican or worthy of existence

only 100 years ago
[img]http://www.temoinsdejehovah.org/informations/Loi1905/Chartreux.jpg[/img]

[Chiquitunga]

wow ... .. yeah, that happened to a lot of monasteries throughtout the centuries ... .. hopefully never to happen again, especially in Europe where they're not very religious these days and Isalm is growing ...

[cathoholic_anonymous]

What was it that Gandhi said when he was campaigning for social justice? "Even if I am a minority of one, the truth remains the truth." Evangelical theology paints a grim picture: Christians engaged in a tug-of-war with the devil for the salvation of souls. Catholicism doesn't have that strain of near-hysteria in it - we know that the Church and her treasury of truth will always be safe, because Jesus promised that. All we have to do is be the people we are called to be and let God take care of the rest.

[Chiquitunga]

Here's a site with an article on the other Italian nun's Chaterhouse - [url="http://xoomer.alice.it/degoweb/certosa/certosa.htm"]La "Certosa della Trinità"[/url] It's a much newer monastery than the Vedana one, but has a pretty old/traditional looking chapel.
[img]http://www.chartreux.org/maisons/Trinita/10_I-chiesa-IX-05_corrected.jpg[/img]

Edited January 14, 2007 by Margaret Clare

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1163879' date='Jan 13 2007, 07:39 PM']
... All we have to do is be the people we are called to be and let God take care of the rest.
[/quote] yes, that's right ... and be willing to give witness to our Faith, cost what it may .. ..

[Chiquitunga]

There's a CD of the Carthusian Nuns in Spain at Santa Maria de Benifaçà, available on the [url="http://www.parkminster.org.uk/order/shop/shop.php?action=full&id=57"]Parkminster site[/url]. This is the only recording of the nuns I've ever heard of. There are a few of the monks, but not the nuns. If you're in the US, they have this CD also at the Vermont Chaterhouse giftstore - phone # - 802 - 362 - 1114. I haven't seen this particular CD anywhere else. I'll let everyone know how it is, when it comes in the mail. :j

[Emile James]

for those interested
The revised slightly Ordo Missal, of the Carthusian Order.( the modified Roman rite of Grenoble) as far as i can tell. 10 pages PDF
[url="http://ffyl.uncu.edu.ar/departamentos/filosofia/centros/cefim/Missale%20Carthussiense.pdf"]http://ffyl.uncu.edu.ar/departamentos/filo...rthussiense.pdf[/url]

"Throughout the Carthusian Order the 11th century Rite of Lyon (Grenoble), since the 16th century known as the Carthusian Rite, was used for Mass and other liturgical solemnities, even after the introduction of a widely spread Roman Missal by Pope Pius V in 1570 ( Tridentine Mass). The Carthusians maintained their own liturgical rite, which however had many similarities to the Roman Rite. Only after the liturgical reform following the Second Vatican Council, did the traditional simple Carthusian Rite eventually grow almost totally extinct. A completely reformed Carthusian missal was eventually printed, which substantially resembled the reformed Mass of Paul VI.
The carthusians at Grande Chartruese and in Pleterje ,Slovenia, still maintain Latin usage , and [i]Ad Orientum[/i] "

By His Mercy, E-J

[i]Stat crux dum volvitur orbis[/i]

[Chiquitunga]

Here's something I just noticed from the Carthusian site, that again, answers the original question I was asking about on this thread:
[quote]
Although they were determined to adopt the rule of life of the Carthusians, for several centuries the communal part of the nun’s life was greater than for the monks. It was thought at that time that the feminine temperament was not apt to endure all the rigors of the monks’ solitude. Since 1970, given the earnest requests of the nuns to be allowed to adopt the Carthusian life in all its aspects, there has been a movement towards a more solitary life, so that at the moment the nuns’ life is identical to that of the monks.[/quote]

I'm glad the nuns are allowed now to live a life identical to that of the monks. There have been female hermits since the beginning, hasn't there - just after the Resurrection, I believe. Isn't there a tradition that St. Mary Magdalene went off into the desert to live a life of prayer and penance?

[Emile James]

[quote name='Margaret Clare' post='1164840' date='Jan 14 2007, 06:35 PM']
Here's something I just noticed from the Carthusian site, that again, answers the original question I was asking about on this thread:
I'm glad the nuns are allowed now to live a life identical to that of the monks. There have been female hermits since the beginning, hasn't there - just after the Resurrection, I believe. Isn't there a tradition that St. Mary Magdalene went off into the desert to live a life of prayer and penance?
[/quote]
the life of St mary of Egypt, some confuse with The Magdalen, who lived in a cave later in S. France.
we read this every lent..
Our Mother St Mary the Egyptian stands as one of the great ascetics of Christendom and a model of the ascetic life for all who would obey Christ's command to leave the ties of the world, take up their cross and follow Him. Hers is a devotion to God of the deepest sort, and a dedication to the attainment of the Kingdom that has served as an inspiration, beakon and support for millions of Christians over the better part of nearly two millennia. This is the holy life, this is the great spiritual impact had by a solitary woman who, by the precious account of her life, was so marred by sin that she could not physically enter into the temple.
her life..
[url="http://www.monachos.net/library/Mary_of_Egypt%2C_Complete_Life_by_Patriarch_Sophronius_of_Jerusalem"]http://www.monachos.net/library/Mary_of_Eg...us_of_Jerusalem[/url]

A number of the Desert Mothers were penitent ex-prostitutes, several of whom - St Mary of Egypt, St Thais and St Pelagia - are objects of great devotion and respect in the Eastern Christian tradition, St Mary even having the fifth Sunday of Lent dedicated to her.
------------
[url="http://www.hermitary.com/articles/mothers.html"]http://www.hermitary.com/articles/mothers.html[/url]

[Emile James]

her life..
[url="http://www.monachos.net/library/Patristics_Master_List"]http://www.monachos.net/library/Patristics_Master_List[/url]
A number of the Desert Mothers were penitent ex-prostitutes, several of whom - St Mary of Egypt, St Thais and St Pelagia - are objects of great devotion and respect in the Eastern Christian tradition, St Mary even having the fifth Sunday of Lent dedicated to her.
------------
[url="http://www.hermitary.com/articles/mothers.html"]http://www.hermitary.com/articles/mothers.html[/url]
[/quote]

Edited January 15, 2007 by Emile James

[Chiquitunga]

[center][url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13192a.htm"]St. Roseline de Villeneuve[/url] (1263 - 1329)

[img]http://www.rennes-le-chateau-archive.com/images/meridien/st_roseline_belgentier.jpg[/img][/center]

[EJames]

Upcoming USA dates for the film "Into Great Silence". a perspective on the French Carthusians

[url="http://zeitgeistfilms.com/playdates.php?directoryname=intogreatsilence"]http://zeitgeistfilms.com/playdates.php?di...ntogreatsilence[/url]

[url="http://blog-by-the-sea.typepad.com/blog_bythesea/2007/02/into_great_sile.html"]http://blog-by-the-sea.typepad.com/blog_by...great_sile.html[/url]

Edited February 7, 2007 by EJames