Should Postulant's Outfits Be More Aesthetically Pleasing?

[Veritas]

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Some postulant outfits are notoriously unattractive (e.g. [url="http://www.sistersofmary.org/sitefs.shtml"]http://www.sistersofmary.org/sitefs.shtml[/url] ). Generally speaking, the vest or jumper and shin-length skirt isn't very pleasing to the eye. While the goal of a religious isn't to be attractive, do we have a duty to attire ourselves in a more classically beautiful way? For example, contrast the postulant outfits with the professed sisters -the Dominican habit, which is BEAUTIFUL-- at the SMME link. As far as I know, the postulant outfits generally don't have spiritual significance as e.g. the veil and scapular do. With that in mind, as a theoretical question, would it be beneficial for communities to change postulant outfits? If so, how?

Do you think it would be beneficial for vocations/postulants/the Church to see more postulants alternately attired (I think of how cool cassocks are, e.g.)?

**Oh, and what community has your favorite POSTULANT'S outfit (just for fun)?

Edited September 17, 2006 by Veritas

[DAF]

It's my personal opinion that seminarians and priests should be required to wear a tonsure and corporally mortify themselves all the time. I don't have an issue with postulants outfits. :

[Veritas]

[quote name='DAF' post='1064622' date='Sep 16 2006, 09:34 PM']
It's my personal opinion that seminarians and priests should be required to wear a tonsure and corporally mortify themselves all the time. I don't have an issue with postulants outfits. :
[/quote]

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[i]En Guard[/i] (never took French) --



(oh, and what's a "tonsure"? --that's the thing about being Catholic, there's always something to learn!

Edited September 17, 2006 by Veritas

[AlterDominicus]

I honestly say no, all I care is they WEAR something.

[Guest Perpetualove]

I just looked at the link you provided. They seem to make the women look even younger than they are...although, they probably are very good for all different body styles. That being said, I can't help but think that women who enter a community that wears a full length habit should be given something "more" upon entrance as a postulant.

In response to your "just for fun question"....I happen to think the most beautiful postulant's garment I have (*ever*) seen (and that means "so far!") is the one that the Lockport Dominicans use. For those interested in habits, there is a very good yahoo group designed just for these types of discussions!

[zunshynn]

I don't think it really matters, as long as it has a marked modesty (I think some kind of veil is really cool for postulants)... there's a certain humility and smallness in the simplicity of the postulant outfit. Their youngish and maybe less than noteworthiness is a sign that it is a beginning... I don't think the postulant outfit will really affect what people think of vocations or anything, but rather once you have that attraction already, it becomes a sign of what you're hoping for. Plus, practically speaking, because the postulant outfit is only worn for about a year, I think it's good for them to be pretty basic.

That said, my favorite postulant outfit is this one:

[img]http://www.olamshrine.com/olam/images/postulants.jpg[/img]

Edited September 17, 2006 by zunshynn

[OLAM Dad]

Sr. Lauren's first jumper was too form fitting so mother gave her another. I suppose, especially for the extern/active sisters, there is definitely such a thing as too aesthetically pleasing.

Something simple but not hideous ugly works the best. You need to be able to work and pray in whatever you're given, that's for sure.

My favorite is this one (no surprise)
[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/materdei/CopyofIMG_2917.jpg[/img]

[puellapaschalis]

[quote name='Veritas' post='1064625' date='Sep 17 2006, 06:37 AM']
(oh, and what's a "tonsure"? --that's the thing about being Catholic, there's always something to learn!
[/quote]

Tonsure is the symbol of the crown of thorns - the head is shaved apart from a ring of hair around the head. The precise form varies: the old Celtic monastics' tonsure only went around the back of the head.

I don't think it's done much anymore, either amongst the secular clergy or religious (whether ordained or not). The few seculars I know only have a small shaved patch at the crown of the head, and they're now all of an age where...hm...let's say perhaps they don't need to maintain it.

Hope this helps a little.

Love and prayers,

PP

[Gemma]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1064938' date='Sep 17 2006, 07:55 AM']
Tonsure is the symbol of the crown of thorns - the head is shaved apart from a ring of hair around the head. The precise form varies: the old Celtic monastics' tonsure only went around the back of the head.

I don't think it's done much anymore, either amongst the secular clergy or religious (whether ordained or not). The few seculars I know only have a small shaved patch at the crown of the head, and they're now all of an age where...hm...let's say perhaps they don't need to maintain it.

Hope this helps a little.

Love and prayers,

PP
[/quote]


One of our former gentleman aspirants is now with the FSSP, and he receives the tonsure this year. It's his second year of seminary.

Blessings,
Gemma

[quote name='Perpetualove' post='1064763' date='Sep 17 2006, 01:57 AM']
I just looked at the link you provided. They seem to make the women look even younger than they are...although, they probably are very good for all different body styles. That being said, I can't help but think that women who enter a community that wears a full length habit should be given something "more" upon entrance as a postulant.

In response to your "just for fun question"....I happen to think the most beautiful postulant's garment I have (*ever*) seen (and that means "so far!") is the one that the Lockport Dominicans use. For those interested in habits, there is a very good yahoo group designed just for these types of discussions!
[/quote]

Thanks for mentioning our yahoo group [url="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thereligioushabit/"]The Religious Habit[/url].

The reason why the teaching Dominicans went to the vest style of postulant garb is because it looked more professional in the classroom.

Our SOLC Foundations will be using the "old fashioned" postulant garb which includes a capelet and veil. The capelet helps them to get used to having something to keep their hands under--preparation for the scapular.

Blessings,
Gemma

[HisChild]

I don't think they need to be necessarily more aesthetically pleasing, but I think wearing a veil, even a shorter one, such as the one that many of the cloistered orders wear, helps the postulant to feel more that she's a community member, even though she isn't 'officially' a member of the community until she's a novice. (see the PCPA websites for postulant pics, such as www.desertnuns.com or www.stjosephmonastery.com or the PCPA postulant pics above) The old DCJ outfits were awesome (I saw them in old photos.) They had a caplet and veil. And the cape was long enough to be able to tuck your hands under as you walked.

It's also such a penance to have to 'do' your hair every morning if you don't have something to tuck it under. It was difficult, at least for me, with curly hair, to try to make it look non-frizzy and neat (as in, not sloppy). I felt so fortunate, when I was able to wear a veil, because I could just hide my hair!

[HeavenlyCalling]

I personally like the jumper style better then the vest and skirt, of course it wouldn't stop me from entering an order, but still. I also think that a small veil is a good idea, as it would get you used to wearing one.

[puellapaschalis]

[quote name='HisChild' post='1065012' date='Sep 17 2006, 04:56 PM']It's also such a penance to have to 'do' your hair every morning if you don't have something to tuck it under. It was difficult, at least for me, with curly hair, to try to make it look non-frizzy and neat (as in, not sloppy). I felt so fortunate, when I was able to wear a veil, because I could just hide my hair!
[/quote]



Hence why I usually stuff my (frizzy) hair into a bun and tie a great big handkerchief over my head most days

Love and prayers,

PP

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

Postulants don't even need to wear any sort of outfit or uniform and it was common that postulants even wore their own clothes as postulants. Wearing uniform clothing is more a"modern" practice.
Postulant clothing is meant to be simple, modest, and functional. It's not meant to be a sort of "mini habit" until one gets the habit so I wouldn't compare postulant clothing to the habit in terms of looks.
I prefer jumpers to skirts and blouses but we have done both. We stopped having a veil for postulants but hair got to be a problem so now we have a short white veil.
When I was a postulant I wore the same jumper that the OLAM postulants used to wear and it seems we BOTH changed the style at the same time! I also wore a very uncomfortable blue veil and the shade of navy blue was different from my jumper! Ugh!

The dress-cape style is cute but rather old fashioned looking especially for active sisters who are "out there". NAshville wore that until 1990.

We've always joked that postulant clothing is SUPPOSED to be ugly to make you yearn even more for the habit! :

Here is what our postulants look like. I like this jumper style very much.
[url="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3175/604/400/pod_postulants.jpg"]postulants[/url]

(I hope this link works this time!)

[Veritas]

[quote name='Sr. Mary Catharine' post='1065079' date='Sep 17 2006, 10:53 AM']
Postulants don't even need to wear any sort of outfit or uniform and it was common that postulants even wore their own clothes as postulants. Wearing uniform clothing is more a"modern" practice.
Postulant clothing is meant to be simple, modest, and functional. It's not meant to be a sort of "mini habit" until one gets the habit so I wouldn't compare postulant clothing to the habit in terms of looks.
I prefer jumpers to skirts and blouses but we have done both. We stopped having a veil for postulants but hair got to be a problem so now we have a short white veil.
When I was a postulant I wore the same jumper that the OLAM postulants used to wear and it seems we BOTH changed the style at the same time! I also wore a very uncomfortable blue veil and the shade of navy blue was different from my jumper! Ugh!

The dress-cape style is cute but rather old fashioned looking especially for active sisters who are "out there". NAshville wore that until 1990.

We've always joked that postulant clothing is SUPPOSED to be ugly to make you yearn even more for the habit! :

Here is what our postulants looked like. I like this jumper style very much.
[url="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3175/604/400/pod_postulants.jpg"]postulants[/url]

(I hope this link works this time!)
[/quote]

Thanks Sr. Catherine
I would very much like to see... but it doesn't seem to be working.

Also, does anyone have pictures of Nashville (or another community) in the "dress-cape style"? I would like to see what those look like --I don't think I've ever seen them before.

Edited September 17, 2006 by Veritas

[Gemma]

[quote name='Veritas' post='1065097' date='Sep 17 2006, 02:17 PM']
Thanks Sr. Catherine
I would very much like to see... but it doesn't seem to be working.

Also, does anyone have pictures of Nashville (or another community) in the "dress-cape style"? I would like to see what those look like --I don't think I've ever seen them before.
[/quote]


Go to our "Aspirant Update" page on our website (under "SOLC Foundations"). We have a large (sorry!) pic of OP sisters with dress-cape postulant.

Since we're going to be Traddie, the "old fashioned" look is for us!!!

[url="http://cloisters.tripod.com/"]http://cloisters.tripod.com/[/url]

Blessings,
Gemma

Edited September 17, 2006 by Gemma

[Veritas]

[quote name='Gemma' post='1065101' date='Sep 17 2006, 11:22 AM']
Go to our "Aspirant Update" page on our website (under "SOLC Foundations"). We have a large (sorry!) pic of OP sisters with dress-cape postulant.

Since we're going to be Traddie, the "old fashioned" look is for us!!!

[url="http://cloisters.tripod.com/"]http://cloisters.tripod.com/[/url]

Blessings,
Gemma
[/quote]

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Cool. Thanks Gemma. She even has a rosary on her belt (I presume).

[puellapaschalis]

I have doubts (although who am I to even have opinions on clothes I don't wear?) about whether a postulant outfit should look "like a habit". They're not yet invested, after all, and so it wouldn't be appropriate for their clothes to look like a habit.

On the other hand, I do think it's a good thing for them to have some sort of "uniform". In a Western culture which is pretty hard to shake off in order to live a Christian life, let alone one that is deepened to such an extent that someone plucks up the courage to enter, some sort of recognition in the form of a way of dress can be a great support.

I think that out of the postulant uniforms I've seen, I'd "prefer" that of the Dominicans in Lockport. I'd like OLAM's dresses more if they were longer - but I am a person who thinks anything shorter than ankle length (yes, even for people as tall as VA) is bordering on scandalous (if it weren't for some religious- and corset-related issues, I do believe I'd fit in rather well into Victorian society).

Love and prayers,

PP

[AlterDominicus]

You know, actually just to dodge to the actual habit, I couldnt help but laugh. The FSGM's habit is seven pockets...can you imagnine having seven pockets, I mean pants usually have 4! But seven, that includes the sleeves...its funny.

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

OK. I guess I can't get around using photobucket!
Here is the photo of our postulants.
[img]http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m194/smcatharine/postulants_house.jpg[/img]

I looked at Lockport's postulant jumper and I dont' quite see what is all that different except I think they have a belt and it is a little bit longer than ours.

We changed to blue from black in honor of our Lady.

In the old days the postulants wore a frilly bonnet! Now, if people really wanted to be traddie they should wear that! :
If you've seen pictures of Bl. Elizabeth of the Trinity as a postulant than you know what I mean!

Edited September 17, 2006 by Sr. Mary Catharine

[puellapaschalis]

I actually have a jumper[US-term]-related question that is thus slightly off topic, but it's been burning away in my head for a while. The thing is that I feel it's slightly ridiculous and probably not for the eyes of gentlemen to read. So, um, what do I do? Should I PM Sr. Mary Catherine and ask her? (Sr., please forgive me talking about you in the third person...)



Love and prayers,

PP