A New Crusade

[Guest Rick777]

I loathed the Kingdom of Heaven... The Christian men were not only shown as flawed but corrupt.

Edited September 17, 2006 by Rick777

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1064858' date='Sep 17 2006, 03:42 AM']
I thought "Kingdom of Heaven" was pretty good. Don't know know accurate it was historically. I also wished it hadn't been so Euro-centric. This is the west. We know our own history. I was interested in seeing more from a Muslim perspective. But, it was pretty good, and generally displayed both sides as flawed but noble.
[/quote]
I have heard it was inaccurate. I have not seen the movie though and do not consider myself a Crusades expert.

[Era Might]

I don't know. I know the story is true, because I checked Warren Carroll's account in "The Glory of Christendom" and it was basically the same. Balian defends the wall of Jerusalam, Saladin besieges and wins but Balian wins terms for the lives of his people. That's what happens in the movie. The King of Jerusalem is a leper in the movie, and was in real life.

But, I don't know about the minutae and how accurate it is.

He gives a great speech at the end though, about how Jerusalem is just a pile of dirt, and they're not fighting for a pile of dirt, they're fighting for their lives. I don't know if that was real, but it was a great commentary on the Crusades, between ideal and reality, how in its ideal it was a struggle for defense, but often got mixed up in temporal greed and lust for power and land.

But, he also commits fornication in the movie.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1064870' date='Sep 17 2006, 01:52 AM']
I don't know. I know the story is true, because I checked Warren Carroll's account in "The Glory of Christendom" and it was basically the same. Balian defends the wall of Jerusalam, Saladin besieges and wins but Balian wins terms for the lives of his people. That's what happens in the movie. The King of Jerusalem is a leper in the movie, and was in real life.

But, I don't know about the minutae and how accurate it is.

He gives a great speech at the end though, about how Jerusalem is just a pile of dirt, and they're not fighting for a pile of dirt, they're fighting for their lives. I don't know if that was real, but it was a great commentary on the Crusades, between ideal and reality, how in its ideal it was a struggle for defense, but often got mixed up in temporal greed and lust for power and land.
[/quote]
I saw it and felt it was anachronistic in that the characters came off to me as modern westerners. They got the big picture of historical events correct, but they utterly failed to portray the mind of the period (IMHO).

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

I think the reported inaccuracies was in the portrayal of certain figures. I recall reading about how a Christian leader was protrayed as somewhat agnostic or doubtful in the movie, when historical record shows his support of the Church.

[goldenchild17]

I would support another crusade. I think we're in a time when one would be appropriate. I don't see why we would need to focus on the Muslims though. They're not really the ones having the most affect on our faith from what I can tell. I would say something more like the UN or something like that. But in this day and age the Church would never be able to get enough to fight something as big as the UN.

I would support another crusade. I think we're in a time when one would be appropriate. I don't see why we would need to focus on the Muslims though. They're not really the ones having the most affect on our faith from what I can tell. I would say something more like the UN or something like that. But in this day and age the Church would never be able to get enough to fight something as big as the UN.

[Era Might]

Yah, I'm always underwhelmed with secular films about Catholicism. I'm always thinking, "that's now how a Catholic would respond". Sometimes they have to throw in cheesy lines just to capture general theological principles.

[Guest Rick777]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1064887' date='Sep 17 2006, 01:57 AM']
I would support another crusade. I think we're in a time when one would be appropriate. I don't see why we would need to focus on the Muslims though. They're not really the ones having the most affect on our faith from what I can tell. I would say something more like the UN or something like that. But in this day and age the Church would never be able to get enough to fight something as big as the UN.

I would support another crusade. I think we're in a time when one would be appropriate. I don't see why we would need to focus on the Muslims though. They're not really the ones having the most affect on our faith from what I can tell. I would say something more like the UN or something like that. But in this day and age the Church would never be able to get enough to fight something as big as the UN.
[/quote]

Th UN? They aren't threatening the Pope and destroying Church's.

Edited September 17, 2006 by Rick777

[goldenchild17]

If you say so... Only time will tell. But Luther too started out least claiming that he was trying to do good and trying to help the Church. Sometimes what's on the surface isn't what it's really about.

Edited September 17, 2006 by goldenchild17

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Rick777' post='1064893' date='Sep 17 2006, 03:00 AM']
Th UN? They aren't threatening the Pope and destroying Church's.
[/quote]

The UN is pretty scary to me....a useless world organization completely whitewashed by political correctness? The worst part is that Europe puts so much stock in it...Someday it will be kinda like the EU, except encompassing the entire globe (at least, those countries that have joined it)...that is, if we continue to be members. We haven't made the UN too happy in recent years, actually that makes ME kinda happy...

[Guest Rick777]

I'm not saying that the UN isn't without issues, I'm saying that Muslims do have a big effect on us...

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='aalpha1989' post='1064903' date='Sep 17 2006, 03:09 AM']
The UN is pretty scary to me....a useless world organization completely whitewashed by political correctness? The worst part is that Europe puts so much stock in it...Someday it will be kinda like the EU, except encompassing the entire globe (at least, those countries that have joined it)...that is, if we continue to be members. We haven't made the UN too happy in recent years, actually that makes ME kinda happy...
[/quote]

I would throw the EU in there also as a target , but then we'd be WAY undermanned :.

[quote name='Rick777' post='1064906' date='Sep 17 2006, 03:11 AM']
I'm not saying that the UN isn't without issues, I'm saying that Muslims do have a big effect on us...
[/quote]

And they could be a target as well. However I was just saying I don't think they are even close to the biggest thing the Church has to worry about. Just because the Muslims are open about their willingness to use force doesn't make them any more dangerous than the much stronger organizations who are being secretive.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

The UN basically encompasses the globe, so it'd be a tough fight.

[goldenchild17]

haha yeah that's an understatement.

[Laudate_Dominum]

Just some figures to ponder:

Including reserves and paramilitary forces the largest Muslim military is that of Iran at 1,770,000 troops. Pakistan is probably in second place at 1,449,000.

At first glance these types of figures might be intimidating but remember that Pakistan's worst enemy is India who has 3,773,300 troops, far more than Iran and Pakistan combined.

Israel has some 576,000, and Italy another 438,800. I remember seeing plenty of Brazilians at WYD in Rome which calls to mind the fact that they have an impressive 1,687,600 troops at their disposal.

Finally the U.S. forces (active, reserve and paramilitary) comes in around 2,369,239 strong.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_active_troops"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...f_active_troops[/url]

[Laudate_Dominum]

I say we enlist some Catholic Ronin to help out the Swiss Guard.

[img]http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/ukiyo-e/images/8655s.jpg[/img]

[img]http://web.inter.nl.net/hcc/rekius/ronin.jpg[/img]

[img]http://oelie.antville.org/static/oelie/images/samurai.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.japanische-kultur.de/img/samurai.jpg[/img]

[img]http://java.nationalgeographic.com/studentatlas/clickup/images/samurai.jpg[/img]

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1064815' date='Sep 17 2006, 02:59 AM']
I assume Era's avatar says it all.
[/quote]



"era might" ...silly stuff

[Budge]

what the Muslim world needs is missionaries not more war, violence and killing. While I do believe there is need for people to defend themselves, the last thing this world needs is another crusade. Many believe that the NWO desires a full-out global war of civilizations. I suppose nothing would make Satan happier. I beleive this is in Bible Prophecy. the ME very likely is going to explode in total out war and probably the entire world--which is predicted in Revelation , this is just the continued evil taking over the planet as we get closer to the Tribulation.

I wish those trillions of dollars could have been spent on sending missionaries, and Bibles and the gospel to the ME...That is what they need.

Political correctness, and interreligious dialogue have failed.

God's plan would have been the one that worked, holding to and preaching the gospel, but sinful man followed his own wisdom yet again.






It seems to me, that the present administration is going to be very pleased to have legions of Catholic men willing to sign up to go 'defend' the Pope for the next ME war. {war with Iran?}

[Paladin]

[quote name='Budge' post='1064975' date='Sep 17 2006, 10:17 AM']
what the Muslim world needs is missionaries not more war, violence and killing. While I do believe there is need for people to defend themselves, the last thing this world needs is another crusade. Many believe that the NWO desires a full-out global war of civilizations. I suppose nothing would make Satan happier. I beleive this is in Bible Prophecy. the ME very likely is going to explode in total out war and probably the entire world--which is predicted in Revelation , this is just the continued evil taking over the planet as we get closer to the Tribulation.

I wish those trillions of dollars could have been spent on sending missionaries, and Bibles and the gospel to the ME...That is what they need.

Political correctness, and interreligious dialogue have failed.

God's plan would have been the one that worked, holding to and preaching the gospel, but sinful man followed his own wisdom yet again.
It seems to me, that the present administration is going to be very pleased to have legions of Catholic men willing to sign up to go 'defend' the Pope for the next ME war. {war with Iran?}
[/quote]
While I don't think this is the start of the Second Coming, I do agree with Budge. We are the religion of peace Islam claims to be. It would be hypocritical to jump in there guns a-blazing shouting "Obey the Prince of Peace or we'll slaughter you!" That would just make us radical Muslims of another faith. Remember that old hymn, "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and His righteousness, and all these things will be given onto you." What we need is prayer, fasting, and repentence. Then we will have peace.