Early Church Fathers..and Their "damnable Heresies'

[Cam42]

I just read through this thread and my goodness Budge, that is one of the WEAKEST arguments I have EVER read, for disproving the authority and truthfulness of the Church Fathers.

Seriously, my 5 year old nephew who can't even pronounce Chrysostom, can do better than what you have put on the board.

Give it an honest shot and perhaps we can make a go of it.....but to throw out only what you have thrown out, that is pathetic.

I'll be waiting patiently. I have to be, since you apparently don't like to rebut my positions.





Go Budgy, It's your Birthday, Go Budgy, beat the Fathers.....nah, that chant isn't even worth it.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Cam42' post='1080130' date='Sep 30 2006, 09:45 AM']Go Budgy, It's your Birthday, Go Budgy, beat the Fathers.....nah, that chant isn't even worth it.
[/quote]

Thanks for putting that in my head...

[Cam42]

You're so welcome.....

Go Mommy, it's your birthday, Go Mommy, get your son up......

Geico ain't got nothin' on me, sister....

[homeschoolmom]

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Budge' post='1079715' date='Sep 29 2006, 07:19 PM']Christianity is not supposed to be a religion of blind obedience. but obeying God rather then men.
[/quote]

And who is to be the arbiter of what God wants? You? David Koresh? How I am supposed to know the difference? Oh, yeah, didn't Jesus say something about someone being a rock, and upon that rock He would build his Church?

By your argument, any organization is a cult because, well, it's an organization. I guess we should all just be churches unto ourselves. But then, an individual can't be a church, can he / she?

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1079111' date='Sep 29 2006, 01:09 PM']The apostles warned of EARLY DECEIVERS.

I believe the majority of Rome's EARLY CHURCH FATHERS, fit the bill.[/quote]Ironically, St. Paul was [i]thankful[/i] that the early Roman Church had a faith that was "heralded throughout the world" ([url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/romans/romans1.htm#v8"]Rom 1:8[/url]). Who to believe: Budge or St. Paul? Hmmm...

As for [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen#Origen.27s_influence_on_the_later_Church"]Origen[/url], he is a poor example to cite because the Catholic Church does not consider him a Church Father. On the other hand, I believe that we Christians owe something to him for some of his teachings (e.g. advancing our understanding of the nature of the Trinity).

[Winchester]

[quote name='jswranch' post='1080113' date='Sep 30 2006, 07:47 AM']
I suppose you know Origen was not a church father. He is also never refered to as 'St. Origen'.
Which Early Chruch Fathers do you refer?
[/quote]

I predict that Budge will either not address this in future posts or just not post here again.

C'mon Budge, prove me wrong.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Budge, I don't think you replied to me.

[Budge]

Oh I knew Origen wasnt seen as "Orthodox" though he seems pretty in vogue now.

Add Augustine, Tertuillian, Constantines boot-licker Eusebius, Pope Gregory the Great, Ignatius, Iraneus, Jerome...and many more.

By the way I went to go look up an official list of Catholic ECFs, and ORIGEN is on THIS LIST.

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/"]ORIGEN IS ON THE OFFICIAL LIST[/url]

[cmotherofpirl]

He didn't get everything wrong.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1080751' date='Oct 1 2006, 02:03 PM']
Oh I knew Origen wasnt seen as "Orthodox" though he seems pretty in vogue now.

Add Augustine, Tertuillian, Constantines boot-licker Eusebius, Pope Gregory the Great, Ignatius, Iraneus, Jerome...and many more.

By the way I went to go look up an official list of Catholic ECFs, and ORIGEN is on THIS LIST.

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/"]ORIGEN IS ON THE OFFICIAL LIST[/url]
[/quote]
I don't think there is an official list, first off. I think there is a general consensus.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1080751' date='Oct 1 2006, 02:03 PM']Add Augustine, Tertuillian, Constantines boot-licker Eusebius, Pope Gregory the Great, Ignatius, Iraneus, Jerome...and many more.[/quote]???? So listing names and using words like "boot-licker" without quotes is supposed to influence someone here? I'm afraid your contributions don't give me any confidence that you've read a sentence of what these men have written. If you have more than a list of names, just let us know.

[quote name='Budge' post='1080751' date='Oct 1 2006, 02:03 PM']By the way I went to go look up an official list of Catholic ECFs, and ORIGEN is on THIS LIST.

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/"]ORIGEN IS ON THE OFFICIAL LIST[/url][/quote]As has been mentioned, Origen's errors don't impact his early writings. If you accept the Catholic Encyclopedia as an authority in listing the Church Fathers, then I'd ask you to read the article "Fathers of the Church" on the New Advent website (the same website you are quoting from):

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06001a.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06001a.htm[/url]

This might help you understand why some of his writings are listed, even if he isn't a Church Father.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Budge' post='1080751' date='Oct 1 2006, 01:03 PM']
Oh I knew Origen wasnt seen as "Orthodox" though he seems pretty in vogue now.
By the way [b]I went to go look up[/b] an official list of Catholic ECFs, and ORIGEN is on THIS LIST.

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/"]ORIGEN IS ON THE OFFICIAL LIST[/url]
[/quote]
My congratulations to you Budge. You made the effort to look up something yourself. And your reference is not an anti-Catholic site. There is hope for you. :

In regards to your argument, I'll leave this one to the others who have already begun to address it.

[Budge]

Ive read different ones from Augustine to Eusebius.

Eusebius is Constantines bootlicker, I called him that because Ive read endless of his writings from Fordham university when doing threads on Constantine.