Revival

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='T-Bone' post='1097183' date='Oct 20 2006, 07:07 PM']
Do you really expect Budge or Euthy' to answer a question?

Maybe we can get Mulls to do it. He seems both knowlegeable and willing to answer a simple question.
[/quote]

Well... when you put it like that, no. But its not like she's asking them some serious Catholic question (which I have never known them to answer). They're non-Catholics, they should be able to answer her question easily enough.

Mulls is a good egg, I am sure he would give his 2 cents, he's always been very good about answering questions.

[Eutychus]

I answered, very extensively.

You just cannot see that I have.

REVIVAL?

You simply cannot REVIVE a sacramental based church, the service is actually scripted to prevent any expression of joy, excitement, or fire.

So, we showed you HOW it was done down the street from the parishes, and WHY millions left the DEAD and DYING sacramental system, for on fire, spirit filled, crazy and full of joy and excitement church that set up shop in the same neighborhoods.

But if you chose to ignore what is going on, and the hotshot competetion that is ripping out 10% a year, in your pride you will continue to get what you have gotten in the past...NO ONE coming in { last year, according to the USCCB, there were approximately SIX new members coming in that were not Catholic to begin with per parish, and THAT is pathetic...}

When you learn to sing like this....well, you know what you will say, that is UNDIGNIFIED...you are now pushing Gregorian Chants...and frankly, I REALLY hope that catches on with the Catholic Church, and the Latin Mass too!

[img]http://www.albanyfirstassembly.org/images/page/p5.jpg[/img]

[IcePrincessKRS]

Sorry, I saw nothing about revival. Only conversion. Desertwoman didn't see anything about revival, either, as evidenced by her post.

[Eutychus]

Ah, yes.

You actually haven't got a CLUE what I was saying do you?

{ and THAT is why you don't have any RE-VIV-AL, and won't....}

[Socrates]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1097325' date='Oct 20 2006, 08:04 PM']
So, we showed you HOW it was done down the street from the parishes, and WHY millions left the DEAD and DYING sacramental system, for on fire, [b]spirit filled, crazy and full of joy[/b] and excitement church that set up shop in the same neighborhoods.
[/quote]
Well, from the witness of Euty's behavior on these boards, I think we safely conclude that he may indeed be crazy.

But "spirit-filled" and "[b]full of joy[/b]"???





And as many others have pointed out, this "numbers game" argument is bogus.

Polls of religion show "none" to be the fastest-growing category in America.
Atheism, paganism, and hedonism are all on the upswing. Does that mean they must be true?

[Eutychus]

[quote]Polls of religion show "none" to be the fastest-growing category in America.
Atheism, paganism, and hedonism are all on the upswing. Does that mean they must be true? [/quote]

No. The SECOND largest group in America, are EX Roman Catholics.

They are the ones fueling the growth of Islam { while women, not black males }, they are over 2/3rds of the Jehova's Witness converts, and from what I can ascertain, they are heavily into the New Age stuff too....

[Gadfly]

[i]On those numbers about ex-Catholics[/i], I can only go by my own experience but that hasn't been the case.

For the past 8 years my father has worked in teaching RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults, Not confused with "Recuiting Catholics in America" )

During that time he has worked with hundreds of people who have joined the Catholic Church. When they checked up on the people last year only 2 had left the Church.

Edited October 21, 2006 by Gadfly

[Mary-Kathryn]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1097325' date='Oct 20 2006, 10:04 PM']
But if you chose to ignore what is going on, and the hotshot competetion that is ripping out 10% a year, in your pride you will continue to get what you have gotten in the past...NO ONE coming in { last year, according to the USCCB, there were approximately SIX new members coming in that were not Catholic to begin with per parish, and THAT is pathetic...}

[/quote]

Hmmmm...they surely must have skipped counting a parish I know here...they had 51 enter the Church last Easter. In our diocese we seem to have no shortage of RCIA participants... :

Oh...sorry desertwoman...this is so off-topic about revivals

[Eutychus]

Actual number of converts in last year USCCB was 160,000.

Actual number of parishes in the USA per the USCCB is 19,000

I assume that 1/3 convert in not for belief, but for marriage and family harmony, and I assumed that 2/3rds converted in because of a personal belief the Catholic Church was for them.

Do the math yourself.

Claimed number of adherants RC USA is 63 million, or 3300 average per parish.

For a 3.300 member parish to take in 6-8 new converts a year, well, let's just say if that were an Evangelical church, they would fire the pastor and start looking for another one.

To put this into context, one of my favorite churches { I do not attend there, but listen weekly on the internet to the sunday early service } is Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale. Every two months, they have open air baptisms in the ocean. They generally have over 300 per session or 1800 a year. Given where they are, I would assume that 75% of them were formerly Catholic Church, but that is only a guess. My mid sized church, has four welcoming new member sessions a year, they are averaging 30 per class, or 120 a year {adults} and I would guess that about 1/2 are former Roman Catholics.

I only put these numbers out, to show that REVIVAL within the Catholic Church is desperately needed. And getting all excited about a few new faces coming in { that were not born Catholic Church} is premature.

Revival comes like a wildfire, it is contageous, and for those that are hidebound, it is threatening too.

[Mary-Kathryn]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1097630' date='Oct 21 2006, 06:30 AM']
I only put these numbers out, to show that REVIVAL within the Catholic Church is desperately needed. And getting all excited about a few new faces coming in { that were not born Catholic Church} is premature.
[/quote]

Jesus must be very pleased at each and every child of His, who hears His call to come home to His Church. As the angels must surely rejoice, I rejoice for each brother and sister who is welcomed into the Church. Perhaps you can attend an Easter Vigil this coming year. It's very beautiful.

You think there is a need for revival, because you do not understand what The Church has. Why should I need all of what you think of as a "revival" when I walk into my parish church and I gaze upon Him who is Eternal? There is no shortage of converts or Catholics. The Church is alive and well.


God Bless and have a nice weekend

[Eutychus]

[quote] esus must be very pleased at each and every child of His, who hears His call to come home to His Church. As the angels must surely rejoice, I rejoice for each brother and sister who is welcomed into the Church. Perhaps you can attend an Easter Vigil this coming year. It's very beautiful.[/quote]

Pray tell, why on earth would that appeal to me?

It may indeed be beautiful, but many of us have walked frome the sensous rituals and now rest comfortably in relationship, rather than rites.

[Mary-Kathryn]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1097686' date='Oct 21 2006, 12:37 PM']
Pray tell, why on earth would that appeal to me?

It may indeed be beautiful, but many of us have walked frome the sensous rituals and now rest comfortably in relationship, rather than rites.
[/quote]


~sigh~

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1097686' date='Oct 21 2006, 12:37 PM']
Pray tell, why on earth would that appeal to me?

It may indeed be beautiful, but many of us have walked frome the sensous rituals and now rest comfortably in relationship, rather than rites.
[/quote]
It wouldn't appeal to you. Fundamentalists have a long tendency of rejecting the goodness of God's material creation in a misguided effort to emphasize the spiritual. Catholicism uses the material in order to convey the spiritual, since we were made both matter and spirit and since Christ Himself came to us that way, in order the better to appeal to us, but had Christ come to fundamentalists, they would have outright rejected Him because He was incarnate, dwelling in a body, eating, drinking, sleeping, and suffering in a body, and they, again in their misguided way, would see that as a sign of weakness for His message and a sign that his message was irrelevant to their purely spiritual pursuit, rather than a sign of the great love He has for us that leads Him even to come to speak our "language" of bodily things in order to communicate His message for the redemption of man. It wouldn't appeal to you because you don't believe in sacramental concepts. It wouldn't appeal to you because when Christ came to give us the answer, He also came to give us the question, because we were seeking Him in the wrong way, and so He not only gave us the end toward which we sought, but also showed us how to seek: through the body and the spirit. It wouldn't appeal to you, essentially, because you are looking for something other than what Christ came to offer.

We seek relationship through the the bridge of a rite. Fundamentalist seek relationship by ignoring the bridge and leaping the chasm.

Sorry, but that's the way it is. Please use the bridge God gave us. Learn to accept that God wants to use spiritual and the corporeal to bring us to Him and it will start to appeal to you.

[Farsight one]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1096751' date='Oct 20 2006, 11:29 AM']
The 50,000,000 Latin Americans that have left the syncratic/paganism behind for "mere Christianity" just might disagree with you there.
[/quote]
[quote name='Eutychus' post='1097630' date='Oct 21 2006, 05:30 AM']
Actual number of converts in last year USCCB was 160,000.

Actual number of parishes in the USA per the USCCB is 19,000

I assume that 1/3 convert in not for belief, but for marriage and family harmony, and I assumed that 2/3rds converted in because of a personal belief the Catholic Church was for them.

Do the math yourself.

Claimed number of adherants RC USA is 63 million, or 3300 average per parish.

For a 3.300 member parish to take in 6-8 new converts a year, well, let's just say if that were an Evangelical church, they would fire the pastor and start looking for another one.

To put this into context, one of my favorite churches { I do not attend there, but listen weekly on the internet to the sunday early service } is Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale. Every two months, they have open air baptisms in the ocean. They generally have over 300 per session or 1800 a year. Given where they are, I would assume that 75% of them were formerly Catholic Church, but that is only a guess. My mid sized church, has four welcoming new member sessions a year, they are averaging 30 per class, or 120 a year {adults} and I would guess that about 1/2 are former Roman Catholics.

I only put these numbers out, to show that REVIVAL within the Catholic Church is desperately needed. And getting all excited about a few new faces coming in { that were not born Catholic Church} is premature.

Revival comes like a wildfire, it is contageous, and for those that are hidebound, it is threatening too.
[/quote]Maybe that's part of the great falling away mentioned in the bible? Wrap your brain around that possibility.

[Eutychus]

[quote] Maybe that's part of the great falling away mentioned in the bible? Wrap your brain around that possibility.[/quote]

Only a myopic would say that.

Let's see here. We have poor believers, the Holy Spirit moves them, they are Born Again, they join a church that expects THREE sessions a week, they start tithing for real, they get baptised and join a bible study program....

And that, to the Catholic Church is "Falling Away" at the end times?

May I suggest that the CEO ROMAN CATHOLIC { Christmas and Easter } is the one that has fallen away, not the on fire, spirit filled, gung ho new bible believing Christians.

[MilesChristi]

[quote]I assume that 1/3 convert in not for belief, but for marriage and family harmony, and I assumed that 2/3rds converted in because of a personal belief the Catholic Church was for them.[/quote]

[quote]I would assume that 75% of them were formerly Catholic Church, but that is only a guess[/quote]

[quote] I would guess that about 1/2 are former Roman Catholics[/quote]


Well, thanks for sharing a bunch of baseless assumptions and guesswork.

[Eutychus]

And YOUR numbers would be?

[MilesChristi]

I accept your numbers from the USCCB, but I'd like to see some actual evidence for the guesses I quoted in my last post, if you have any.

[Guest T-Bone]

My guess would be that he has none.

[Eutychus]

Sorry, I didn't mean to CONFUSE you when I CLEARLY stated the following...which you actually QUOTED back to me...

[quote]QUOTE
[u][b]I assume that[/b][/u] 1/3 convert in not for belief, but for marriage and family harmony, and I assumed that 2/3rds converted in because of a personal belief the Catholic Church was for them.


QUOTE
[u][b]I would assume that[/b] [/u]75% of them were formerly Catholic Church, but that is only a guess


QUOTE
[b][u]I would guess[/u] [/b]that about 1/2 are former Roman Catholics[/quote]

There you go, EVERY STATEMENT of supposition, was CLEARLY labelled as such.

Sorry to get you all CONFUSED with that "tricky protestant stuff" ... next time, I would have USED [u]BIG RED LETTERS [/u]to help you understand, but everytime the FONT POLICE issue me a WARNING and add another 10% to my warning level.

Damned if you DO, and damned if you do not, that seems to be the way of Catholic discussion sites.

Edited October 22, 2006 by Eutychus