geetarplayer Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 Perhaps hyper means that they have so much faith that the Eucharist is actually Jesus, in some cases they have more faith than many Catholics, and that is why hyper respects them. Not because of the horrible things they do to the Eucharist, though. I think Satanists are scary. I pity them. -Mark
hyperdulia again Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 "?" with sin and tarot and jabez prayers and hypocrisy
Aloysius Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 so some of these satanists have valid holy orders, do it with the full intent of it becoming Christ and with correct matter, is it then actually consecrated? isn't there a way we can take away their holy orders, or at least their ability to consecrate hosts? is there any type of strong excommunication of a priest that would invalidate him, and could the Church apply a general invalidation excommunication for all priests involved in satanism?
hyperdulia again Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 there is no way to undo a sacrament.
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 Priests can be excommunicated. That Bishop who approved the Society of St. Pius X was.
hyperdulia again Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 but they are still priests. they still cann confect the eucharist. they can still forgive sins. a sacrament can never be undone.
cmotherofpirl Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 Ordination marks the soul the same as Baptism does. "Thou art a priest forever..."
Donna Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 The SSPX was canonically approved by the Vatican, not by a bishop.
Anna Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 Perhaps that is true, I have no dates for such. However, when Marcel Lefebvre appointed his own bishops, he placed the Society, and himself, in schism, and incurred excommunication, ispso facto. Pax Christi. <><
Bruce S Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 However, when Marcel Lefebvre appointed his own bishops, he placed the Society, and himself, in schism, and incurred excommunication, ispso facto. OK. So the church changed positions, adopted revision, and those that stuck to what WAS at that time taught as unchangeable dogma, truth, and everlasting... Got booted out for being TOO Catholic. Grin. Right? There are sites dedicated to these conservative catholics, some don't even think there has been a valid Pope since Vatican II. They are fun sites, I have enjoyed reading all the statements there. These guys are even more doctrinaire than you guys. Same mindset, but even moreso.
jasJis Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 Nope. They didn't get booted out for being too Catholic. They got booted for not taking all the facts in account and placing Faith in the real and effective operation of the Holy Spirit within others, themselves, AND the Church. Same goes for those who don't think we have a valid Pope. ;)
Bruce S Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 Nope. They didn't get booted out for being too Catholic. They got booted for not taking all the facts in account and placing Faith in the real and effective operation of the Holy Spirit within others, themselves, AND the Church. Who "changed" them, or the denomination? Seems to ME, they have a very valid point here, they said the Catholic Church adopted heresy itself, and they make some VERY interesting CATHOLIC only based arguments to that effect.
jasJis Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 Who "changed" them, or the denomination? Seems to ME, they have a very valid point here, they said the Catholic Church adopted heresy itself, and they make some VERY interesting CATHOLIC only based arguments to that effect. Easy answer. They let pride change them. They got confused about the hierachy of Truth, which is basic scientific and philosophical fact that reason shows must be applied when contemplating our understanding of God, and our obedient response to Him. ;)
Bruce S Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 (edited) They got confused about the hierachy of Truth, which is basic scientific and philosophical fact that reason shows must be applied when contemplating our understanding of God, and our obedient response to Him Mumbly jumbly, that is typical of what I hear when contradictions are shown to exist. Obedience to Jesus, or the Catholic Church? It would seem that the Catholic Church abrogates to herself the right to massively change, and those "truths" that were held inviolate are no longer truths. And you 'get with the man made change' or you get excommunicated. Moving doctrine, moving faith, or else. See. We prove you change, yet you alway insist you are eternal, even conservative Catholics have seen that, yet Cardinal Newman, and his ever shifting program of "Magisterium" comes riding to the rescue yet again. Cannonize him, quick. He is the best man you ever signed up for apologetics. Love that concept, we are right, no matter what. Edited January 13, 2004 by Bruce S
PedroX Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 How did we go from Satanic masses to the Society of Saint Pius X? I sincerely hope that we are not equating the two. There is no comparison. peace...
Bruce S Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 (edited) How did we go from Satanic masses to the Society of Saint Pius X? I sincerely hope that we are not equating the two. Grin, good point, this did get sidetracked. I'm a fan of Satanic Masses, why, how, and by whom....not OF them, the study of them. Go read WINDSWEPT HOUSE for the Mass itself, the phraseolgy and look to what MIGHT have happened, it is alluded later on, by the author, a Jesuit inside the Vatican at the time, to be true. Good read. Edited January 13, 2004 by Bruce S
Anna Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 Bruce, Marcel Lefebvre wasn't "booted" out of the Church. He incurred excommunication ipso facto. He excommunicated himself, by appointing his own bishops. Holding fast to the traditions of the Old Mass is not wrong, illegal, or an excommunicable offense, as the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter is an order which sprung from Lefebvre's group and affirmed loyalty to the pope when Lefebvre appointed his own bishops. The Fraternity still exists today, and is one of the Church's fastest growing orders, in fact. I'm honored to know a few of these seminarians. Pax Christi. <><
PedroX Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 Bruce, I have read Windswept House and several other of Fr. Martin's books. They are fanscinating tales. He is a gifted storyteller. However, he requested laicization. He broke his promises and his vows. I don't know the reasons for this, and I'm sure that to him the reasons were noble and good. However, it does induce a level of scepticism about his agenda. peace...
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