Redemptive Suffering

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1098426' date='Oct 22 2006, 01:50 PM']

It is controlling the mind, not the sex organs, the MIND is where all sin starts, and where all sin ends too.
[/quote]

I have no argument with that, but as for the second part, please keep in mind that sometimes sexual sin does end up growing in a woman's womb, if you get what I mean.....

[Katholikos]

[quote name='Budge' post='1098341' date='Oct 22 2006, 11:20 AM']
Every Catholic misinterprets that verse.

Your OWN sufferings, even as horrible as they have been, {I am truly sorry for what you have gone through} will not save you. One must have total trust in the sufficency of what Christ did for us on the cross.

Those who have had severe health problems will attest that becoming a Christian and no longer being told they are "holier" then others for all their sufferings, is a life of much more joy when God becomes an never-ending source of comfort to them. God is their loving Father they run into the arms of for comfort and solace. Do you view God as a loving Father?

Jesus taught the blind man, it wasnt any sin you did, nor of your fathers generation. Sickness and death happen to people because of sin in the world in general. These things happen and only God knows the purpose why. Some times it can be a chastisement, other times it can be to change you, there have been others who have been broken who have come to Christ, otherwise they would have died in their sins and gone to hell. But our sufferings do not make us more holy in that we add to our own salvation, or have to "make" an addition to what Christ did on the cross for us.

The book of Job definitely is an enriching one for anyone going through troubles, and the faith of Job...[b]Job 13:15 Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.[/b] is a wonderful example.
[/quote]

No, Budge, every [b][i]Protestant[/i] [/b] misinterprets this verse, or they simply refuse to deal with it and ignore the plain meaning. The Church understands it exactly the way the Apostle Paul meant it when he wrote it. She didn't encounter this teaching for the first time by reading words on a page. She learned it from St. Paul's own lips. LATER, it was preserved in writing. St. Paul [b][i]taught[/i][/b] it before he [i][b]wrote[/b] [/i] it.

Paul's suffering for the sake of the Church (the People of God) contributed to "what was lacking in the afflictions of Christ," that is, to his salvation (he belonged to the Church) and to the salvation of others in the Body of Christ (the Catholic Church).

And St. Paul most certainly had "total trust in the sufficiency of what Christ did for us on the cross." And so does every Catholic. St. Paul most certainly regarded God as his loving Father. And so does every Catholic. That doesn't mean that we don't contribute to our own salvation and that of others through our suffering (and our good works).

Your post is one example of Protestant reaction to St. Paul's words. You're playing dodge ball.

-----------------------------------------
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!

[Mary-Kathryn]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1098180' date='Oct 22 2006, 01:49 AM']
There are other VERY good bibles, that the Catholic Church can use, approved at one time by the Catholic Church, the NAB isn't one of them.
[/quote]

I'm glad to hear that you like a good Catholic Bible. Which one do you use? [serious question here}

[Eutychus]

[quote] I'm glad to hear that you like a good Catholic Bible. Which one do you use? [/quote]

If forced to use a bible from the Alexandrian stream, I would reluctantly say the best one BY FAR, is Sungenis's new bible as it becomes fully available. It is a work in progress, but is actually up to the highest standards that NON [mod]offensive language, substitute "Catholics" instead -Raphael[/mod] have come to expect in a study bible, unlike the tripe that the NAB dishes out as commentary.

[url="http://www.catholicintl.com/products/books/casb.html"]http://www.catholicintl.com/products/books/casb.html[/url]

Edited October 25, 2006 by Raphael

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

I like the term "Mackerel Snapper." I found it in a KKK letter to the president of the University of Notre Dame in the early 1900s.

[Seven77]

Suffering is redemptive B/C of Christ. We Members are united with Christ the Head. Everything we do or undergo can thus become a prayer acceptable to God our loving Father. For what loving father says 'no' when his child says 'can i help'?

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God..." -Rom. 12:1

[Eutychus]

[quote] I like the term "Mackerel Snapper." [/quote]

What did the poor Mackerel's do to deserve that??

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1101101' date='Oct 25 2006, 07:14 PM']
What did the poor Mackerel's do to deserve that??
[/quote]
Ooh... ouch!

[dUSt]

[quote]Self inflicted suffering is quite a different matter.[/quote]
So, for all those that believe suffering by choice has no redeeming value... Are you saying that Jesus Christ did [b]not[/b] choose to be on the cross?

Or maybe you are trying to tell us that His crucifixion has no redeeming value...?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1102338' date='Oct 27 2006, 11:15 AM']
So, for all those that believe suffering by choice has no redeeming value... Are you saying that Jesus Christ did [b]not[/b] choose to be on the cross?

Or maybe you are trying to tell us that His crucifixion has no redeeming value...?
[/quote]






















:

[Norseman82]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1102338' date='Oct 27 2006, 10:15 AM']
So, for all those that believe suffering by choice has no redeeming value... Are you saying that Jesus Christ did [b]not[/b] choose to be on the cross?

Or maybe you are trying to tell us that His crucifixion has no redeeming value...?
[/quote]

I don't think that is a very good analogy. Yes, Christ could have chosen not to have died on the cross...just like a soldier could choose to disobey an order to take a hill while under heavy enemy fire, but then the mission would fail. Just the same, Christ was "under orders", so to speak; remember what He prayed to the Father: "If possible, take this cup from me" but then "not My will, but Yours be done".

A much better analogy would be St. Maximillian Kolbe, who volunteered to take the place of a condemned man with a family when the Nazis chose someone to be executed in retaliation for a prisoner escaping from Oświęcim (Auschwitz).