When Does A Catholic Become An Ex-catholic?

[Katholikos]

A Catholic who "knowingly and obstinately" rejects "the defined doctrines of the church" or its "definitive teaching on moral issues" should refrain from receiving Communion, according to a document that will come before the U.S. bishops at their Nov. 13-16 fall general meeting in Baltimore.


[url="http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0605983.htm"]http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0605983.htm[/url]

(hope this time the link works! Jay)
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Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!

Edited October 26, 2006 by Katholikos

[Guest T-Bone]

Once you go Vatican, you can't go back again!

- Homer J. Simpson

[CatholicCid]

At most, you can be a Catholic not in good standing with the Church.
Possibly a Catholic outside of the Church (assuming excommunication)

[Katholikos]

[quote name='T-Bone' post='1101818' date='Oct 26 2006, 04:51 PM']
Once you go Vatican, you can't go back again!

- Homer J. Simpson
[/quote]
Amen, Homer!

[Resurrexi]

58 Q. What sin would a man commit who should refuse to accept the solemn definitions of the Pope?
A. He who refuses to accept the solemn definitions of the Pope, or who even doubts them, sins against faith; and should he remain obstinate in this unbelief, he would no longer be a Catholic, but a heretic.

[CatholicCid]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1101952' date='Oct 26 2006, 06:10 PM']
58 Q. What sin would a man commit who should refuse to accept the solemn definitions of the Pope?
A. He who refuses to accept the solemn definitions of the Pope, or who even doubts them, sins against faith; and should he remain obstinate in this unbelief, he would no longer be a Catholic, but a heretic.
[/quote]

Doesn't De Baptismo (in which doctrines are anathematized) include:
[quote]-A baptized person, even if he wishes it, can not lose grace, no matter how much he sins, unless he refuses to believe.
-Baptism although truly and properly administered, must be repeated in the case of a person who has denied the faith of Christ before infidels and has been brought again to repentance. [/quote]

So, even a heretic, even if no longer referred to as a Catholic, would still be a Catholic in light of their Baptism no?
Or I could be confusing what you quoted... Can't tell if he is saying whether a heretic is to no longer be refered to as a Catholic or if they are no longer Catholic (no longer baptized, ect...)

Edited October 26, 2006 by CatholicCid

[Eutychus]

OK, polls done by Roman Catholics show that 90% of those in the pews are in total violation of the birth control statutes.

So, which priest or Bishop will be the first one to TELL the pew classes, that if they use birth control, they are excommunicated, and ask them PLEASE to leave, and not take the sacraments?

When hades freezes over....

[Socrates]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1102046' date='Oct 26 2006, 09:16 PM']
OK, polls done by Roman Catholics show that 90% of those in the pews are in total violation of the birth control statutes.

So, which priest or Bishop will be the first one to TELL the pew classes, that if they use birth control, they are excommunicated, and ask them PLEASE to leave, and not take the sacraments?

When hades freezes over....
[/quote]
Several priests have, repeatedly, in my parish.

Is it cooling down in Hades yet?

Of course, I come from one of those benighted "ultra-conservative" parishes.

[Eutychus]

[quote]Call to restrict role of 'a la carte' Catholics


Guardian Unlimited
Henry Mcdonald
22 October 2006
Link to original

'Part-time' catholics and their children should possibly be denied sacraments, a religious order's magazine has suggested. [b][u]Reality, a publication of the Redemptorist Order, has argued that communion, confirmation and other holy ceremonies should perhaps 'be restricted only to those who have a genuine faith commitment'.

In a searing attack on what are known in Ireland as 'a la carte' Catholics, the magazine criticises those who use the church and its rituals for social rather than spiritual reasons.[/b][/u] [/quote]

[url="http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1928556,00.html"]http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story...1928556,00.html[/url]

Apparently, others are saying similar things around the world.....

Now they are on record as favoring this, is THAT all that will be done, does FOLLOWTHROUGH ever count, or merely the fact that your "intentions" are committed somewhere, someway to paper and print?

[Winchester]

Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger once stated that he doubted whether American Catholics could be culpable for their use of contraceptives considering our society.



Euty,
You're speculating again.

It's really unbecoming. But that sleeping brain avatar is so terribly apropos.

[Katholikos]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1102046' date='Oct 26 2006, 10:16 PM']
OK, polls done by Roman Catholics show that 90% of those in the pews are in total violation of the birth control statutes.

So, which priest or Bishop will be the first one to TELL the pew classes, that if they use birth control, they are excommunicated, and ask them PLEASE to leave, and not take the sacraments?

When hades freezes over....
[/quote]The Church would never tell sinners to leave. The Church is a hospital for sinners and a training school for saints.

Church expects all Catholics, even those who are excommunicated, to continue attending Mass in the hope that they will be converted, confess their sins, and return to the Sacraments.

Birth control is not forbidden. Artificial birth control --contraception -- is a mortal sin. The Church teaches Natural Family Planning, which is birth control using God's method of spacing births, avoiding pregnancy for serious reasons, or achieving pregnancy. Artificial birth control -- using chemical barriers and devices to prevent God from creating human life -- is a grave sin. The penalty for abortion is automatic excommunication.

ALL Christian churches -- Protestant and Catholic -- taught that artificial birth control. subverting the will of God -- was sinful until 1930. The Anglican (Episcopal) Church, at its 1930 Lambeth Conference, decided that contraception was permissible in some circumstances. After that, all churches except the Catholic Church fell into the same error. Now it's permitted, even encouraged, by Protestant churches anytime, for any reason. Since the Pill is an abortifacient (an abortion-causing agent) all Protestant churches allow chemical abortion. Many Protestant churches approve surgical abortion

The Catholic Church alone continues to teach the truth and nothing but the truth.

Praise Him and exalt Him in His One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church!

[Akalyte]

MY Priests lay the smack down on heresy and modernism. Thank God for Orthodox Priests. Orthodox Catholics are a Remnant though..

[Guest T-Bone]

I thought mulls was back.

I wanted to be able to read intelligent debates about Catholic teachings...not just random jabs that make no sense.

[Eutychus]

[quote] I wanted to be able to read intelligent debates about Catholic teachings...not just random jabs that make no sense.[/quote]

That literally is impossible on a Catholic Church board.

Several times over the past few years, I have set forth a question, and SET ONE RULE, for that quiestion....that it be debated without any cut and pastes, or prewritten scripted retorts, that every word, other than bible verses be original and not copied from another source.

The end result was the Catholic Church side got angry and boycotted those threads.

[Aloysius]

show one of those threads on phatmass, please... most folks on phatmass do not use cut and pastes (except sparingly when they find a good website or artical which explains better than they think they personally could); with the exception of Budge and Euty.. oh... sorry... that's you isn't it?

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1103101' date='Oct 28 2006, 08:01 AM']
show one of those threads on phatmass, please... most folks on phatmass do not use cut and pastes (except sparingly when they find a good website or artical which explains better than they think they personally could); with the exception of Budge and Euty.. oh... sorry... that's you isn't it?
[/quote]


lorf!

[Budge]

How many Catholics NOW in the pews really are NON-Catholics?

The Catholics I meet and know IRL are far different then ones on Catholic apologetic boards, in fact the people IRL are far different. I never expect the typical pew Catholic to start defending the Inquisitions, some definitely have a mish-mash of truth and Catholic and other deceptions in their lives. Here in America there is still some exposure to the gospel from other sources.

I know a Catholic who watches Christian television, and believes salvation is by faith, but who is too scared to leave the Catholic Church because it would upset her mother.

I know a Catholic who is bisexual, pro-choice, and considers herself a "good Catholic".

I know a recent Catholic convert {married within the church recently} who has told me they realize much of Catholicism is man-made.

I know at least 2 Catholics who do not believe in transubstantiation, and when I explained to them what it was, said they still dont believe it.

I know another who does not believe in Purgatory.

My last priest rejected Mary as Co-Redemptrix/Mediatrix and openly said so to me.

One guy on my board always says there is one Catholicism for every Catholic.

So where is the line where these folks cease to be Catholic?

How many doctrines or dogmas do you have to reject to be considered a heretic?

One? Is the Catholic who rejects Purgatory still a Catholic?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1103148' date='Oct 28 2006, 12:11 PM']
How many Catholics NOW in the pews really are NON-Catholics?

The Catholics I meet and know IRL are far different then ones on Catholic apologetic boards, in fact the people IRL are far different. I never expect the typical pew Catholic to start defending the Inquisitions, some definitely have a mish-mash of truth and Catholic and other deceptions in their lives. Here in America there is still some exposure to the gospel from other sources.

I know a Catholic who watches Christian television, and believes salvation is by faith, but who is too scared to leave the Catholic Church because it would upset her mother.

I know a Catholic who is bisexual, pro-choice, and considers herself a "good Catholic".

I know a recent Catholic convert {married within the church recently} who has told me they realize much of Catholicism is man-made.

I know at least 2 Catholics who do not believe in transubstantiation, and when I explained to them what it was, said they still dont believe it.

I know another who does not believe in Purgatory.

My last priest rejected Mary as Co-Redemptrix/Mediatrix and openly said so to me.

One guy on my board always says there is one Catholicism for every Catholic.

So where is the line where these folks cease to be Catholic?

How many doctrines or dogmas do you have to reject to be considered a heretic?

One? Is the Catholic who rejects Purgatory still a Catholic?
[/quote]

The sins of her members are not the sins of the Church. We can know the Church because it is where the saints in heaven are with the sinners on earth at the Feast of the Lamb.

[Budge]

You didnt answer my question.

Actually Ill take the sinful cafeteria Catholic who still has a heart [and WON'T defend things like the Inquisition] over the gung-ho Pious Papal crusader who thinks they were the best thing since sliced bread. I believe the closest one becomes to any false religion the darker it turns one's heart. I know the majority of the people in the pews were just like I was, not knowing Biblical truths, being led down a foggy maze without the light of God's Word.

So Ill ask the question again in different way..

Catholic A rejects purgatory...are they still Catholic?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1103162' date='Oct 28 2006, 12:28 PM']
You didnt answer my question.

Actually Ill take the sinful cafeteria Catholic who still has a heart [and WON'T defend things like the Inquisition] over the gung-ho Pious Papal crusader who thinks they were the best thing since sliced bread. I believe the closest one becomes to any false religion the darker it turns one's heart. I know the majority of the people in the pews were just like I was, not knowing Biblical truths, being led down a foggy maze without the light of God's Word.

So Ill ask the question again in different way..

Catholic A rejects purgatory...are they still Catholic?
[/quote]
Well of course you would so you can confuse and decieve them with your lies about the Catholic Church.