Executing Sadam

[dairygirl4u2c]

if you are Catholic, please explain a probably yes response.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Wow, for once I actually refuse to speculate and you don't even make it an option?

[Groo the Wanderer]

Prolly yes.

The CCC does allow the death penalty on the occasion where not carrying it out would further expose society to his evils.

This argument could be made for Saddam. While he lives, he still has followers he could direct from behind his prison walls.

'Course, the argument could also be made that his execution would result in martyrdom and lead to further killing as well.

So...I am glad you put the qualifier 'probably' in there, since I admittedly cannot know for sure until after the fact.


In any case, pray for him that he may repent and achieve salvation before the sentence is carried out.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1112676' date='Nov 6 2006, 11:12 AM']
Wow, for once I actually refuse to speculate and you don't even make it an option?
[/quote]

[HeavenlyCalling]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' post='1112679' date='Nov 6 2006, 12:14 PM']
Prolly yes.

The CCC does allow the death penalty on the occasion where not carrying it out would further expose society to his evils.

This argument could be made for Saddam. While he lives, he still has followers he could direct from behind his prison walls.

'Course, the argument could also be made that his execution would result in martyrdom and lead to further killing as well.

So...I am glad you put the qualifier 'probably' in there, since I admittedly cannot know for sure until after the fact.
In any case, pray for him that he may repent and achieve salvation before the sentence is carried out.
[/quote]
I voted Catholic and Yes, but I do think that Groo has a valid point. Saddam may be just as dangerous dead as he is alive ( dont you hate that?). While he lives he is an icon for extremists. He could , however unlikely, be busted out of jail, or simply held up as a role model.

But to kill him would, as Groo said, make him a martyr. That would cause I renual of the suicide bomds, deaths, protests, ect. in the Middle East. It is a trick situation. Has anyone heard if he will be hung in public or private?

Edited November 6, 2006 by HeavenlyCalling

[Nathan]

I'm Catholic and I say hang 'em high. As long as Saddam is breathing, he will always be a danger. Just look at the murders of [i]three[/i] of his lawyers during the trial. Tell me Saddam did not order those deaths. What a joke.

Depending on how much access Saddam has to his cronies over the next month or so, now that he's been convicted, any number of lives are in danger right now.

[God the Father]

Of course not. He could reform in jail (depending on what we put in his Doritos), and then preach peace and love. Imagine what would've happened if someone [i]justified[/i] killing Tookie.

O WAIT

[CrossCuT]

[size=1]I dont believe that anyone has the right to take another persons life.
Murder.

"You murdered people! Now we will murder you!"


You try to teach a child not to hit people by hitting him yourself?
[/size]

[Resurrexi]

Sadam deserves to die! And anyway, the death penalty is perfectly moral and acceptable as long as it is for a serious crime.

God have mercy on his soul.

Edited November 7, 2006 by StThomasMore

[Socrates]

If that [mod]Watch the language. --Era Might[/mod] doesn't deserve to hang, nobody does!

Edited November 7, 2006 by Era Might

[Era Might]

I deserve to hang. I thank God every day for not giving me what I deserve. In fact, this sentiment is built right into the Roman Canon (Eucharistic Prayer I):

[quote]Though we are sinners, we trust in your mercy and love. [b]Do not consider what we truly deserve, but grant us your forgiveness[/b]. Through Christ our Lord. [/quote]
However, with that said, the question of Saddam remaining a threat is a legitimate one to consider, although I don't think that is why he is being executed.

[Mercy me]

I voted yes. He should be exectued. The reasons are multiple.

1. I don't think that in a country that is still struggling to stablize a government that he can be kept securely locked up and in communicato.

2. He can and I think that he will try to destablize the government that tried him.

3. The Baathists still view him as a leader. In that part of the world hostage exchanges are common. Having him in custody will incite more violence.

These are just a couple of reasons off the top of my head. There are others.

[Socrates]

[quote name='CrossCuT' post='1113229' date='Nov 6 2006, 09:21 PM']
[size=1]I dont believe that anyone has the right to take another persons life.
Murder.

"You murdered people! Now we will murder you!"
You try to teach a child not to hit people by hitting him yourself?
[/size]
[/quote]
Obviously, you've never read the Old Testament. God orders the death penalty for a variety of crimes: murder, blasphemy, adultery, sodomy, etc.

And this is not just an O.T. thing either - the Catholic Church has always allowed the death penalty, which was practiced in all Catholic countries for many centuries of Christendom's history.

And yes, little kids who run around hitting other kids without good reason deserve to have their bottoms whupped.

[CrossCuT]

[size=1]I have never heard that the church supported the death penalty.
Show me and Ill believe it.

I still do not think we should choose when a person should die or not.
And I think that putting him in a dark room with padded walls and no widnows or human contact for the rest of his life would be worse.
[/size]

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Catholic Encyclopedia article "Captial Punishment"']Canon law has always forbidden clerics to shed human blood and therefore capital punishment has always been the work of the officials of the State and not of the Church. Even in the case of heresy, of which so much is made by non-Catholic controversialists, the functions of ecclesiastics were restricted invariably to ascertaining the fact of heresy. The punishment, whether capital or other, was both prescribed and inflicted by civil government. [b][color="#FF0000"]The infliction of capital punishment is not contrary to the teaching of the Catholic Church[/color], and the power of the State to visit upon culprits the penalty of death derives much authority from revelation and from the writings of theologians.[/b] The advisabilty of exercising that power is, of course, an affair to be determined upon other and various considerations.[/quote]

Edited November 7, 2006 by StThomasMore

[Socrates]

[quote name='CrossCuT' post='1113290' date='Nov 6 2006, 10:17 PM']
[size=1]I have never heard that the church supported the death penalty.
Show me and Ill believe it.

I still do not think we should choose when a person should die or not.
And I think that putting him in a dark room with padded walls and no widnows or human contact for the rest of his life would be worse.
[/size]
[/quote]
The Church has always allowed the death penalty.
St. Thomas Aquinas, the "Angelic Doctor" of the Church, answered objections to the death penalty in [url="http://www.newadvent.org/summa/306402.htm"][i]The Summa Theologica[/i] in "Whether it is Lawful to Kill Sinners"[/url]:

[quote]As stated above (1), it is lawful to kill dumb animals, in so far as they are naturally directed to man's use, as the imperfect is directed to the perfect. Now every part is directed to the whole, as imperfect to perfect, wherefore every part is naturally for the sake of the whole. For this reason we observe that if the health of the whole body demands the excision of a member, through its being decayed or infectious to the other members, it will be both praiseworthy and advantageous to have it cut away. Now every individual person is compared to the whole community, as part to whole. [b]Therefore if a man be dangerous and infectious to the community, on account of some sin, it is praiseworthy and advantageous that he be killed in order to safeguard the common good, since "a little leaven corrupteth the whole lump" (1 Corinthians 5:6).[/b][/quote]

Edited November 7, 2006 by Socrates

[CrossCuT]

[size=1]Well they dont say that I have to agree with it.
[/size]

[Winchester]

[quote name='God the Father' post='1113164' date='Nov 6 2006, 06:49 PM']
Of course not. He could reform in jail (depending on what we put in his Doritos), and then preach peace and love. Imagine what would've happened if someone [i]justified[/i] killing Tookie.

O WAIT
[/quote]

Tookie killed an infant.

Sayonara, don't let the door hit you in your rear on the way out.

[Resurrexi]

[quote]Well they dont say that I have to agree with it.[/quote]

That was a very arrogant thing to say, but let me quote another source that you should find a bit more authoritative:

[quote name='The Catechism of the Catholic Church']2267 Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically non-existent."[/quote]

So, I don't think you could say the death penalty is immoral, sinful or evil, but you could say that you don't like it or it's peronally unappealing to you.

[HeavenlyCalling]

I posted above that I voted 'yes'. However, I have since read the Vaticans view on this. Since I have a firm [i]Roma locata, cause finita est[/i] policy, I will stand behind the Church's decision, in this case to denounce Saddam's exicution, then I am with them. Rome has spoken, and for me the matter is finished.

Edited November 7, 2006 by HeavenlyCalling