Why Do Catholics Take Assults On Molesting Priests Personal?

[zeyeon]

[quote name='RC _' post='1125488' date='Nov 21 2006, 09:15 PM']
Get your argument straight, if you want anyone to take you for anything other than a crackpot.
[/quote]

It was a generalized comment. motherofpirl said she saw nothing wrong with spanking and wrapping on the knuckels with a ruler. You are beyond petty if you are going to try and catch me on abbreviating it with a generalized word.

Edited November 22, 2006 by zeyeon

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='zeyeon' post='1125484' date='Nov 21 2006, 09:03 PM']I'm about protecting children, not prisoner rights.[/quote]In what way does scapegoating priests protect children? When my priest gets insults by random passers-by, calling him a child abuser for no other reason than the collar he wears on his neck, how many children are protected?

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='zeyeon' post='1125415' date='Nov 21 2006, 07:11 PM']
I must be missing something. Do you find the abuse of a child humerous?
[/quote]


[mod]Watch the personal insults. --Era Might[/mod]! public school teachers and non-catholic private school also physically disciplined children too. It is obvious that you are an anti-Catholic. My grandfather was disciplined by nuns (and from what i am told was beaten by one at least once) and so was my father. Just because individual nuns disciplined children doesn't mean that all nuns did this or that it was even commonplace. If it is true, we can get over the fact that some nuns were a little harsh and move on with our lives.

when you say write songs about a child molester priests it adds to the idea in our society that all or many priests are abusers which is not true.

Edited November 22, 2006 by Era Might

[Farsight one]

[quote]
And as for the psychologist... I hope you don't skip over your patient's words as you did mine.
[/quote]
I don't really know where I skipped over your words, but lets make sure that doesn't happen again, shall we?

[quote name='zeyeon' date='Nov 21 2006, 04:14 PM' post='1125291']
I have made countless songs regarding the subject. Problem is... when i do it... Alot of Catholics (not all) Get upset like I'm personally attacking thier favorite football team.
[/quote]
Yeah, we can get upset like you're attacking our favorite football team because you're generalizing the sins of one onto many. If the quarterback on your favorite football team was caught using steroids and people started talking about how horrible your favorite football team was, you would be justifiedly angry, wouldn't you?

[quote]
Why defend a Child Mollesting Priest? Why take comments made for a child mollesting priest as a personal attack on your faith? When someone get's upset at one of them, and scorns them... Why defend him?
[/quote]
Once again, we're not defending the priest, just our faith as a whole. We cannot deny that it's members are flawed.

[quote]
I believe that it's this type of attitude that halts progress within the church.
[/quote]
Halts progress? The Catholic church is 1500ish years ahead of any other Christian church. You can't see us moving forward because we're already around the bend.
[quote]
This is why nun's were allowed to beat thier students for such a long period of time.
[/quote]
They were never allowed to beat their students. A good smack with a ruler, yes. But to beat someone pretty much involves beating the up. Punching and kicking someone repeatedly is a beating. You throw things out of proportion.

[quote]
I honestly believe that the requirement for celebacy of a priest is rediculous, and 100 years from now, will be looked at just as we look at nun's beating thier students today.

Thoughts?
[/quote]
Why do you believe this? I can say I believe that 9.9999~ equals 10, but unless you've heard the explanation, it looks downright silly.


[quote name='zeyeon' date='Nov 21 2006, 04:59 PM' post='1125338']
To deny that nun's used to beat thier students is ignorant. It's a known documented fact that nun's used to beat thier students.
[/quote]
On these boards, we use evidence to back up our statements. The one who needs to present such evidence usually comes from the non exhaustive standpoint. So, where's yours?
[quote]
My Aunt is a Nun, about 75 years old, and even she acknowledges it. My moms and my pops, when they were young, used to come home with bruises on thier knuckles from nuns hitting thier hands with rulers.
[/quote]
Once again - ruler smacks does NOT equal beatings.

[quote]
I believe my post was miswritten, therefore misunderstood. When i said catholic priest, I didn't mean your personal priest... I meant the ones who mollest in general.
[/quote]
No point to make here.

[quote]
I never said that mollestation was a byproduct of solely catholocisim... The problem is is that you have people that take advantage of defensless children... educating both young and adult minds alike in SALVATION. It's a Gross and utter contradiction, not just in catholocisim, but in ANY religion that has practicing mollesters educating people.
[/quote]
As I said before - since it happens in any religion, then why is the Catholic church so heavily concentrated on?
[quote]
Would you send your kids to the state penetentary to learn how to read?
[/quote]
Yes. If that is where they would be best educated in how to read, I might actually send them there. The prison guards would no doubt watch over them. Is their safety assured? No, but then again, neither is it in a school. In fact, the rate of child molestation in schools is higher than that in the Catholic church. Not to mention that child molestors don't last long in prisons - they usually get knifed just for being a child molestor. They are pretty much seen as subhuman in prisons.

[quote]
Like it or not its a problem. Like your uncle or not, he's still a mollester. Problem needs to be dealt with, and I'm sorry, but it starts with people putting more effort into reform than defence.
[/quote]
Yeah, it's a problem. And the Catholic church is putting a whole lot more effort into fixing the problem than the goverment is in fixing the same problem in their public schools.

[quote name='zeyeon' date='Nov 21 2006, 05:30 PM' post='1125365']
Are you kidding? I'm not sure if you're mocking me now or what lol. If you really want i can cite some litigation cases as well as numerous amounts of literary works done by former clergey.
[/quote]
If you can, then why didn't you just do that? It would have been just as easy as typing what you did. So, if you can, do so. I dare you.


[quote name='zeyeon' date='Nov 21 2006, 05:58 PM' post='1125392']
On an 8 year old kid it's still abuse and devestating to the psyche of a child. would you smack your own kid with a ruler on the knuckles?

It's abuse man don't be rediculous.
[/quote]
Once again, technically not abuse. And while the child may cry from the pain, it's not "devestating to the psyche" of the child. Once again you throw things way out of proportion.

[quote name='zeyeon' date='Nov 21 2006, 06:11 PM' post='1125415']
I must be missing something. Do you find the abuse of a child humerous?
[/quote]
He was laughing because you thought that it was "devestating to the psyche of a child". Abuse is no laughing matter and he knows it.

[quote name='zeyeon' date='Nov 21 2006, 06:17 PM' post='1125418']
My guess would be due to the fact that there is a much larger number in the Catholic religion, thus the fact that it gains more attention.
[/quote]
Rehash my old reply: Larger in number, perhaps, but that's because the Catholic church in general is larger in number. Larger percentage wise? not one bit.


[quote name='zeyeon' date='Nov 21 2006, 06:38 PM' post='1125431']
Smartest comment I've heard yet. But what would happen when it came time to execute a priest?
[/quote]If that was the punishment for child molestation, then it would be unfair to let him off because he's a priest.


[quote name='zeyeon' date='Nov 21 2006, 06:53 PM' post='1125447']
Well the reason why you spank your kids is because you got abused as a child as well. It may be all you know as far as discipline is concerned. That pattern holds true with serial killers, mollesters, trades of skill, everything. May seem normal to you but it's abuse none the less.
[/quote]
rehash of previous response: I'm sorry, but I'm a psychologist, and I have to say that that's horribly naieve. ...and once again, technically not abuse.

[quote]
Which is why it's dangerous when it happens in such an influential community as a church.
[/quote]
or schools?
[quote]
lol man you were the first person who posted saying how hard it is to accept because priests are like uncles to you.
[/quote]
not what was said at all.

[quote]
Don't front like you wouldn't be outside picketing to save his life.
[/quote]
I'm not the picketing kind of guy, but if I was, yes, I might be picketing to save his life. That's because I'm prolife, in ALL respects. I'd just as soon do the same for someone else on death row as well.


[quote name='zeyeon' date='Nov 21 2006, 07:39 PM' post='1125472']
You people are flipping the script on me like CRAZY.

Spanking is not abuse...If you think I was talking on a spanking you're either confused or intentionally flipping it. RAPPING YOUR KIDS ON THE KNUCKLES WITH A WOODEN RULER?!?!

That is CHILD ABUSE PERIOD.
[/quote]
Legally, yes, but it's not beating, which is what you called even spanking up until now.

[quote]
And as for the psychologist... I hope you don't skip over your patient's words as you did mine.
[/quote]
Might you point out where I skipped over your words (before I made this post)
[quote]
In the united states... if you were to wrap even an INMATE on teh knuckles with a ruler it would be considered cruel and unusual punishment.
[/quote]
That's because he's already doing the time for the crime. If I grounded my kid for something he did, and then decided to spank him for no apparent reason, I'd be a jerk for it.

[quote]
lol that's like caining your kids.
[/quote]
whoa...Ok, first, spanking is like smacking knuckles with a ruler and is beating a child. It's child abuse, then it's not child abuse. Now smacking knuckles is like caning? I'm not condoning any of it, and when I have kids, I'm going to do my best to NEVER have to even spank them, but there's a huge difference, and you're blurring the edges.

[quote name='zeyeon' date='Nov 21 2006, 08:03 PM' post='1125484']
I'm just prooving a point. If you think I'm mistaken then you are the one mistaken. The reform of nuns beating the studednts is similar to the drastic reforms that need to take place in order to solve the problem.
[/quote]
Once again, the burden of proof falls on you, and you have yet to provide. Thats how a debate works.

[quote]
Yes Mollesting is not a catholic owned vice.
[/quote]
Then why is the Catholic church the only one that's the butt of jokes, that wind up in music and on the news regarding the subject?

[quote]
But Beating children was not unique to the catholic church either.
[/quote]
No point to make here.

[quote]
Catholics have a moral authority in the world, so therefore have the responsibility to reform the church to lessen the problem. all I'm saying.
[/quote]
Which is what's being done, and we're putting far more effort into the problem than anyone else is.

[quote]
When's the last time a child was executed?

I'm about protecting children, not prisoner rights.
[/quote]
Hunh?

[quote name='zeyeon' date='Nov 21 2006, 08:20 PM' post='1125491']
It was a generalized comment. motherofpirl said she saw nothing wrong with spanking and wrapping on the knuckels with a ruler.
[/quote]
She did say that there was nothing wrong with spanking, but never mentioned knuckle smacking.
[quote]
You are beyond petty if you are going to try and catch me on abbreviating it with a generalized word.
[/quote]
And you have no valid points to make if you're going to strawman like that. He pointed out quite validly that you were contradicting yourself and most likely wanted to simply know what your true point of view was, and you turn around and call him petty.

edit: can anyone see where my quote thingy's went wrong?

Edited November 22, 2006 by Farsight one

[Socrates]

[quote name='Farsight one' post='1125516' date='Nov 21 2006, 09:41 PM']
Iedit: can anyone see where my quote thingy's went wrong?
[/quote]
Too many quotes in a single post. (Trick: divide your post into two posts.)

Anyways, that dude seems to be a troll interested in provoking a reaction, rather than in intelligent discussion.

If he's serious on what we say about this issue, he can do a search, and look up some of the hundred-odd threads on this topic.

Edited November 22, 2006 by Socrates

[Era Might]

[quote name='zeyeon' post='1125365' date='Nov 21 2006, 05:30 PM']If you really want i can cite some litigation cases as well as numerous amounts of literary works done by former clergey.[/quote]
Please do. Objective sources, please. No Alberto Rivera types.

What I need specifically is evidence that "beating" was a widespread institutional problem. A litigation case doesn't mean much, because anyone can sue anyone for anything. For the type of widespread problem you are suggesting, objective statistical studies are necessary. Even personal testimony can be misleading, because it's subjective. Everyone's perception of life is their own. I know for a fact that millions of Catholics who grew up in that period speak glowingly of the nuns who taught them what love is. One comes to mind: Fr. Benedict Groeschel, an elderly Priest and a prominent speaker who has attributed his vocation to the nuns who taught him as a child.

Can you provide any statistical proof that nuns "beat" children and that children were psychologically damaged by this? This is a popular and absurd caricature of Catholic nuns in the same way Jews are caricatured as greedy bankers. Does that mean there has never been a greedy Jewish banker or nuns who went a little far with the corporal punishment? No. It just means that the caricature and the vilification of an entire group of people is popular and prejudiced myth.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='zeyeon' post='1125392' date='Nov 21 2006, 08:58 PM']
On an 8 year old kid it's still abuse and devestating to the psyche of a child. would you smack your own kid with a ruler on the knuckles?

It's abuse man don't be rediculous.
[/quote]
oh my. If an 8 year old can't take a rap on the knuckles he is a pansy of the highest order.

Give me a break. A smack. on the knuckles. ouch.

So, let's look at the last 40 years of 'positive affirmation' and all the rewards that are forthcoming. The hordes of well rounded children we have now.

I can't think of any.

I see these: Fat, ungrateful little spites who do more to advance the cause of contraception than any 100 feminist crusaders. Explaining to a kid why he is wrong is not a punishment, because it assumes that the little snot actually cares. Smack his face and he cares. Smack his knuckles and he cares, but gets over it.

In fact, the best behaved kids I know are the ones whose parents aren't afraid to haul off and smack them in the middle of the grocery store. And NOT apologize.

And you keep spelling "molesting" wrong. You should be spelling it "molestation"

[zeyeon]

How many people here had a priest try to dress up as santa claus and have you sit on his lap.


Show of hands please.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1125557' date='Nov 21 2006, 09:33 PM']
oh my. If an 8 year old can't take a rap on the knuckles he is a pansy of the highest order.

Give me a break. A smack. on the knuckles. ouch.

So, let's look at the last 40 years of 'positive affirmation' and all the rewards that are forthcoming. The hordes of well rounded children we have now.

I can't think of any.

I see these: Fat, ungrateful little spites who do more to advance the cause of contraception than any 100 feminist crusaders. Explaining to a kid why he is wrong is not a punishment, because it assumes that the little snot actually cares. [b]Smack his face and he cares.[/b] Smack his knuckles and he cares, but gets over it.

In fact, the best behaved kids I know are the ones whose parents aren't afraid to haul off and smack them in the middle of the grocery store. And NOT apologize.

And you keep spelling "molesting" wrong. You should be spelling it "molestation"
[/quote]
I was with you until the bolded part... then you lost me.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='zeyeon' post='1125570' date='Nov 21 2006, 10:42 PM']How many people here had a priest try to dress up as santa claus and have you sit on his lap.
Show of hands please.[/quote]Once again, you're scapegoating. If you think that having grown men dress up as Santa Claus is a bad idea, then why focus in on priests?

Heck, given the amount of molestation that is carried out by close relatives, would you think that children shouldn't sit on the laps of their fathers, mothers, aunts, and uncles? Or is it the Santa costume that worries you? Or the clerical collar?

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1125574' date='Nov 22 2006, 12:48 AM']
I was with you until the bolded part... then you lost me.
[/quote]
i was just being over the top. don't worry, no face smacking in my repertoire.

[Farsight one]

[quote name='zeyeon' post='1125570' date='Nov 21 2006, 09:42 PM']
How many people here had a priest try to dress up as santa claus and have you sit on his lap.
Show of hands please.
[/quote]Nope, never. Actually, I've never seen a priest dress up like santa at all, except the hat. Someone more educated on the subject might have to clarify for me, but I'm thinking that they're probably not supposed to do that at all. Either way, that doesn't imply evil intent, or do you think all mall santa clauses are child molestors (or at least have urges in that direction).

And way to avoid the subject at hand by the way.


[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1125574' date='Nov 21 2006, 09:48 PM']
I was with you until the bolded part... then you lost me.
[/quote]I don't know if this is what he meant, but I've seem some parents pop their kid in the face before. It wasn't enough to hurt, but coming from a parent that NEVER hits their kid at all, it's a big shock, and it really grabs their attention.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='zeyeon' post='1125570' date='Nov 21 2006, 10:42 PM']
How many people here had a priest try to dress up as santa claus and have you sit on his lap.
Show of hands please.
[/quote]
You really have issues with priests don't you.... I think Father Groeshel would make an excellent Santa., but he is so frail you would have to sit at his feet.

[zeyeon]

[quote name='Farsight one' post='1125584' date='Nov 21 2006, 10:53 PM']
Nope, never. Actually, I've never seen a priest dress up like santa at all, except the hat. Someone more educated on the subject might have to clarify for me, but I'm thinking that they're probably not supposed to do that at all. Either way, that doesn't imply evil intent, or do you think all mall santa clauses are child molestors (or at least have urges in that direction).

And way to avoid the subject at hand by the way.
I don't know if this is what he meant, but I've seem some parents pop their kid in the face before. It wasn't enough to hurt, but coming from a parent that NEVER hits their kid at all, it's a big shock, and it really grabs their attention.
[/quote]

lol there's no point in even discussing it further. yall did your job I did mine.

What have we learned from this thread?

Don't beat your Kids... if you want to scare them then take them to confession.

[rollingcatholic]

[quote name='zeyeon' post='1125598' date='Nov 21 2006, 10:02 PM']
lol there's no point in even discussing it further. yall did your job I did mine.

What have we learned from this thread?

Don't beat your Kids... if you want to scare them then take them to confession.
[/quote]

Your job being, proving yourself as an anti-Catholic bigot?

[Era Might]

The thread has run its course. Thread closed.

[Winchester]

What a shame. An accomplished troll can string people along for at least five pages.