dandy777 Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 [quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1208501' date='Mar 5 2007, 04:27 PM']Dandy, I understand where you are coming from, however, I have to disagree with you that we "forget lonliness," whether we are young or old, we never forget that. What we do is realize that part of a priest's life is to be sacrificial...he offers a sacrifice everyday, He stands in the person of Christ everyday, and he pours himself out on that altar each and everyday as well. Is it hard? Definitely. Is it impossible, no..."All things are possible with God." Every single priest, whether they admit it or not, knew what they were doing before actually doing it, and, as beautiful as having a family is, they felt they were called to something else, that God wanted them to fulfill their vocation in life as a father of a large extended family. Also, normally most men get married rather young, so I would actually think it would be harder for them when they were younger rather than older, despite their enthusiasm to "change the world." Also, as we grow older if our life was not "concrete" in the beginning how is a family going to make it any more concrete? I would imagine it would cause more problems than solutions. I am not picking on you, because, as a priest, I think about this myself (any priest that does not admit it is lying to you) but whenever I get to the points you just cited I realize what I just said as well. Granted, you may fit me in the category of being a young, ethusiastic priest who wants to change the world, but even us "young enthusiastic" types have our days as well, and that is part of the nature of the vocation itself and part of the sacrifice that we make as being priests. It is God constantly saying, "are you sure," and us saying "yes, I am sure." The struggle for holiness, whether as priest or layperson is still a struggle, no one said it would be easy, that is what it means to live as a Christian and as one who is willing to "take up the cross" each and everyday whether we want to or not. Just my .02 on the whole thing, take it for what its worth. God Bless Fr. Brian[/quote] Nice words indeed Fr.! I really admire you for your stand and your determination despite all difficulties yet I still feel that there is room for both vocations. As I said, I highly esteem celibate priests and I really believe that it is a very high and valuable vocation. It is very difficult to keep but not impossible. I mean after all, the church calls all unmarried people even those who took no vows to remain chaste until marriage. So cahstity and celibacy are important spiritual virtues. Yet, I believe that there should be married priests too. I admire Orthodox priesthood a lot too. Does their priesthood make it less effective, spiritual or self-giving than ours just because they have married priests? I don't think so. If you compare catholics with protestant pastors then that's another thing. Despite the fact, that I have many protestant friends, I still don't think that they have the devotion that most of our priests do so their view of marriage is kinda different than ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy777 Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 [quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1208957' date='Mar 6 2007, 05:55 AM']The Church changed because many priests couldn't keep it in their pants and were jumping into bed with all sorts of people. They were sick of their clergy impregnating half of Europe so they introduced mandatory celibacy.[/quote] Don't you think that you're words are a bit disrespectful towards priests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Holy Rosary Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 I hope to be a priest someday. I would never marry even if given the option. Priests are already married men. They have the Church as there spouse and there parishioners for their children. What man can head two families equally? Eventually he is going to have to ask himself the question, "Who comes first?". I don't think I could be 100% Priest and 100% Husband/Father. Both sacraments require total self-giving. But I would have you to be without solicitude. He that is without a wife, is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please God. But he that is with a wife, is solicitous for the things of the world, how he may please his wife: [b]and he is divided[/b]. 1 Corinthians 7:32-33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonoducchi Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 [quote name='dandy777' post='1209019' date='Mar 6 2007, 06:16 AM']Don't you think that you're words are a bit disrespectful towards priests?[/quote] Let's call a spade a spade. There was great sexual promiscuity in Europe around the year 1000 and priests (some, not all) took part in it, as they continue to throughout history. Let's not whitewash it saying they have "moral obstacles and hearty sexual appetites." Some men are sexually driven and satisfy it at all costs, even to the detriment of their vocation and office. If we weren't so concerned about language and protecting the image of the clergy, and more concerned about reality and the faithful, we may have been able to avoid some of the unpleasantness in the recent years concerning pedophilic priests. But this digresses from the stated topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 [quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1209161' date='Mar 6 2007, 03:28 PM']Let's call a spade a spade. There was great sexual promiscuity in Europe around the year 1000 and priests (some, not all) took part in it, as they continue to throughout history. Let's not whitewash it saying they have "moral obstacles and hearty sexual appetites." Some men are sexually driven and satisfy it at all costs, even to the detriment of their vocation and office. If we weren't so concerned about language and protecting the image of the clergy, and more concerned about reality and the faithful, we may have been able to avoid some of the unpleasantness in the recent years concerning pedophilic priests. But this digresses from the stated topic.[/quote] It's okay to say that some priests have made mistakes. However, the language you use to describe it is crude and unnecessary. Find a more constructive way to criticize, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesChristi Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 [quote name='prose' post='1148256' date='Dec 23 2006, 02:36 PM']married priests would cost a lot more money. The churches would need to pay them a living wage. Many small churches would collapse (I think) because of this financial burden. It may lead to a future of HUGE congregations. [/quote] A very good and practical point which people don't often realize. Thanks for mentioning it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 [quote name='Raphael' post='1209167' date='Mar 6 2007, 12:44 PM']It's okay to say that some priests have made mistakes. However, the language you use to describe it is crude and unnecessary. Find a more constructive way to criticize, please.[/quote] Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonoducchi Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1209450' date='Mar 6 2007, 09:10 PM']Well said.[/quote] You're entitled to your opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xTrishaxLynnx Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 [quote name='Knight of the Holy Rosary' post='1209125' date='Mar 6 2007, 01:28 PM']Priests are already married men. They have the Church as there spouse and there parishioners for their children. What man can head two families equally? Eventually he is going to have to ask himself the question, "Who comes first?". I don't think I could be 100% Priest and 100% Husband/Father. Both sacraments require total self-giving.[/quote] Sweet! I don't have to type my opinion out, because that is exactly my view on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 [quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1209500' date='Mar 6 2007, 07:54 PM']You're entitled to your opinion...[/quote] You are entitled to your opinion as well, but it should be presented in a manner that is neither crude nor acrimonious. God bless, Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy777 Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 [quote name='Raphael' post='1209167' date='Mar 6 2007, 09:44 PM']It's okay to say that some priests have made mistakes. However, the language you use to describe it is crude and unnecessary. Find a more constructive way to criticize, please.[/quote] That is exactly what I meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy777 Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 [quote name='prose' post='1209439' date='Dec 23 2006, 02:36 PM']married priests would cost a lot more money. The churches would need to pay them a living wage. Many small churches would collapse (I think) because of this financial burden. It may lead to a future of HUGE congregations.[/quote] [quote name='MilesChristi' post='1209439' date='Mar 7 2007, 03:52 AM']A very good and practical point which people don't often realize. Thanks for mentioning it...[/quote] Food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Or worse, a cut in other diocesan services/jobs (perhaps adding even more burden to the stretched priest) - maybe even social services. Worse yet - money haggling homilies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonoducchi Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1209652' date='Mar 7 2007, 03:10 AM']You are entitled to your opinion as well, but it should be presented in a manner that is neither crude nor acrimonious. God bless, Todd[/quote] How about getting upset at priests who sleep around? How "liberal" of us...getting upset at language rather than actions.... Let's not sugar coat it- "priests made some mistakes..." I make mistakes on the morning crossword puzzle! Let's get shcocked into awareness here, not again protect a clergy that engages in misconduct and then hides it. Why is sexual immorailty only despised when its engaged in by the laity? Why are the clergy tip-toed around? Why are we afraid to lable with stronger words than "error", and "mistake"? Read how bishops historically address sexual impropriety in the priesthood. Its very often "a moral problem" or "impared development." These phrases make it easier to dimiss as a nuisance instead of a glaring deficiency in the hierarchy's willingness to ackowledge the underside of human sexuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 V2L, Being forthright is a good thing, but being crude is not. God bless, Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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