Is It Shallow

[Nunsense]

I have no problem with orders that don't wear a habit - but they are not for me, that is definite and I don't see this as shallow since it is a sign of a consecrated life.

What I do wonder about, is it shallow for me to want an order with a traditional habit instead of a modified one?

I am attracted to several different orders, but one that might be a really good fit in so many other ways, has a modified habit, and when I look at photos of the community, I find it jarring that they are not in full habit.

Is this shallow, and should I ignore it, as long as they are wearing a habit??

[cathoholic_anonymous]

I struggle with the same thing. I want to join an order that wears a traditional but simple (i.e. practical) habit. I feel a bit queasy when I look at photos of sisters in knee-length dresses and veils that look more like pillowcases than anything. Part of me wonders whether this preoccupation with how sisters look is shallow. Another part of me thinks: "No, it's not superficial. What is the point of a knee-length dress and a veil like a pillowcase? The religious habit should serve a religious purpose." My two opinions fight it out between them.

[HeavenlyCalling]

I think that if it was down to two or three orders that all were a possibility for entering, then the habit might be the desiding factor, but I dont think that I wouldn't join an order just because they wore a modified habit. But then again, I have never really been in that situation.

[Gemma]

I always put it to the discerner like this: just throw yourself into His arms and let Him carry you to where He wants you.

You'll experience happiness and peace when you get to the right place. (This does not always carry through for marriage, however. You're working with a completely different set of parameters there). If they have a habit, so be it. If you end up someplace where they don't wear the habit, then ask for more clarification of Him.

I did discern non-habited orders, and I didn't like the utter state of spiritual confusion I experienced when I was in their midst.

When I hear of discerners going convent to convent, I am reminded of St. Bridget of Sweden after she became a widow, and Jesus led her from convent to convent. He also told her the things He didn't like about particular houses, and asked her to pray for them. In fact, He led her to so many, she asked when she could go back home. (If I've got that wrong, someone please correct me).

Just my 2 cents.

Blessings,
Gemma

[ThyHolyLove]

Hey nunsense! I can understand your feelings because I've gone through the same thing. I was discerning with a lot of different orders and am now entering the [url="http://ascjus.org/"]Apostles of the Sacred Heart of Jesus[/url]. They wear a modified habit and it was a concern for me in the begining. How did I get over it? Well, simply I believe that God is calling me to their order and none other. I love sooo much about their life, spirit of prayer and reparation and Mother Foundress that I couldn't say no.

To be honest, I used to say "the Apostles are great, but I want a longer habit!" As I talked with the sisters in formation, some would say the same thing, but God pulled them to the order regardless. If the General Chapter of the order approves a longer skirt, I"ll be happy and if not, I"ll accept it as part of obedience.

So, yes I can understand your apprehension, but I would encourage you to look at the "whole picture" of a religious community. Also, trust in where God leads you, His ways may be hard to understand, but He will give you the grace!

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='ThyHolyLove' post='1192371' date='Feb 12 2007, 12:11 PM']
Hey nunsense! I can understand your feelings because I've gone through the same thing. I was discerning with a lot of different orders and am now entering the [url="http://ascjus.org/"]Apostles of the Sacred Heart of Jesus[/url]. They wear a modified habit and it was a concern for me in the begining. How did I get over it? Well, simply I believe that God is calling me to their order and none other. I love sooo much about their life, spirit of prayer and reparation and Mother Foundress that I couldn't say no.

To be honest, I used to say "the Apostles are great, but I want a longer habit!" As I talked with the sisters in formation, some would say the same thing, but God pulled them to the order regardless. If the General Chapter of the order approves a longer skirt, I"ll be happy and if not, I"ll accept it as part of obedience.

So, yes I can understand your apprehension, but I would encourage you to look at the "whole picture" of a religious community. Also, trust in where God leads you, His ways may be hard to understand, but He will give you the grace!
[/quote]
Which province will you be in? Clelian Heights is about 30 miles from me

[ThyHolyLove]

[quote]Which province will you be in? Clelian Heights is about 30 miles from me [/quote]

that is awesome! I'll be in the US province and will have most of my formation at Mount Sacred Heart in Connecticut. For those in the dark, Clelian Heights in the Apostles school for special needs children in PA.

now back to your regularly scheduled programming....... :

[Totus Tuus]

If it is shallow, I am probably pretty shallow

[quote name='nunsense' post='1192266' date='Feb 12 2007, 02:57 AM']
I have no problem with orders that don't wear a habit
[/quote]

I do

Unless a community is in an area where they would be persecuted or killed for wearing a habit (in which case it is not often logical to wear it since you wouldn't be able to live your apostolate of prayer or work...), people need to know that religious women [i]are[/i] religious who are [i]consecrated to God[/i]. That's precisely what a habit is: A symbol of a consecrated person's belonging entirely to God.

[stlmom]

It's not shallow unless you automatically exclude or make judgements about a community based on the particulars of their habit. This is why it is important to spend time getting to know a community beyond appearances. The style of habit may capture your attention, but it's the way they live out the vows, community, and prayer that make up the substance of religious life.

We have a few sisters from the Society Devoted to the Sacred Heart here, who wear neutral beige or off white simply cut dresses with their emblem sewn on the front. Nobody ever mistakes them for laywomen, and they are a very faithful community of sisters. Same with the ASCJ's or the FSGM's or the Sisters of Christian Charity here in St. Louis.They all have modified habits and are all very good communities.

It's OK to be attracted to a more traditional habit, but it's still the way the community lives and works that makes the real difference.
God bless!

[Nunsense]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' post='1192482' date='Feb 12 2007, 11:18 AM']
If it is shallow, I am probably pretty shallow
I do

Unless a community is in an area where they would be persecuted or killed for wearing a habit (in which case it is not often logical to wear it since you wouldn't be able to live your apostolate of prayer or work...), people need to know that religious women [i]are[/i] religious who are [i]consecrated to God[/i]. That's precisely what a habit is: A symbol of a consecrated person's belonging entirely to God.
[/quote]


Well, I meant that I don't have a problem with the habit for those people who choose to enter those orders. Sometimes they feel that they can minister more effectively without the "barrier" of religious dress. But since I am choosing a contemplative order, I don't understand why they all don't have the traditional habit. Just my point of view.

My concern is that since I am down to really three communities who want me to discern with them, I might choose based on the habit -- and wonder if that is just too shallow for words.

I God would just point a finger and say "go there!" then of course the habit wouldn't matter, but I love all three of these communities and want to enter all three!!!

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1192550' date='Feb 12 2007, 02:33 PM']
Well, I meant that I don't have a problem with the habit for those people who choose to enter those orders. Sometimes they feel that they can minister more effectively without the "barrier" of religious dress. But since I am choosing a contemplative order, I don't understand why they all don't have the traditional habit. Just my point of view.

My concern is that since I am down to really three communities who want me to discern with them, I might choose based on the habit -- and wonder if that is just too shallow for words.

I God would just point a finger and say "go there!" then of course the habit wouldn't matter, but I love all three of these communities and want to enter all three!!!
[/quote]

My point is, there is something wrong with a community that sees the habit as a "barrier".

[VeniteAdoremus]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' post='1192711' date='Feb 13 2007, 12:48 AM']
My point is, there is something wrong with a community that sees the habit as a "barrier".
[/quote]

I was chatting with M. Milagro of the Servants of the Lord and the Virgin of Matara (Servidoras, Blue Sisters, however you like to call them ) in my diocese. They're building up a community of young people and sending them out to bring the Gospel back in "normal" day-to-day life, because the Sisters feel they can't come to our universities and our workplaces. We're a bit like undercover agents!

They do have a point: a lot of people at the Physics dept here would look up strangely if they came gliding in with their beautiful long veils, and have trouble speaking openly with them. I can imagine that there are congregations who want to make that kind of contact themselves and not "by proxy", and maybe wearing lay-like clothing helps. Not because the [i]Sisters[/i] think it's an obstacle, but because they realise a lot of other people do - which is true.

[Veritas]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1192266' date='Feb 12 2007, 02:57 AM']
I have no problem with orders that don't wear a habit - but they are not for me, that is definite and I don't see this as shallow since it is a sign of a consecrated life.

What I do wonder about, is it shallow for me to want an order with a traditional habit instead of a modified one?

I am attracted to several different orders, but one that might be a really good fit in so many other ways, has a modified habit, and when I look at photos of the community, I find it jarring that they are not in full habit.

Is this shallow, and should I ignore it, as long as they are wearing a habit??
[/quote]

+

NO! The habit is a sign of consecration and obedience. MANY a holy brother and sister have been drawn by LOVE of the Habit!

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1192853' date='Feb 12 2007, 07:05 PM']
I was chatting with M. Milagro of the Servants of the Lord and the Virgin of Matara (Servidoras, Blue Sisters, however you like to call them ) in my diocese. They're building up a community of young people and sending them out to bring the Gospel back in "normal" day-to-day life, because the Sisters feel they can't come to our universities and our workplaces. We're a bit like undercover agents!

They do have a point: a lot of people at the Physics dept here would look up strangely if they came gliding in with their beautiful long veils, and have trouble speaking openly with them. I can imagine that there are congregations who want to make that kind of contact themselves and not "by proxy", and maybe wearing lay-like clothing helps. Not because the [i]Sisters[/i] think it's an obstacle, but because they realise a lot of other people do - which is true.
[/quote]

+

The DSMME are a witness, and have seen many conversions, at the Secular University where they attend school. So, I don't buy the whole "intimidation" factor one bit. : People may look strangely at first, but they look and then they wonder and then they think and then... it is a marvelous opportunity for God! To be able to speak of our Lord, our Passion without even a word!

[Chiquitunga]

No, I really don't think it's shallow, to base your decision on the habit. [quote name='Totus Tuus' post='1192482' date='Feb 12 2007, 01:18 PM']
If it is shallow, I am probably pretty shallow [/quote] Me too.

But of course, you've got to go wherever it's God's will for you to be. But no, if it's not against God's will, I truly don't think it's shallow to decide between the orders based on the habit.

Edited February 13, 2007 by Margaret Clare

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1192853' date='Feb 12 2007, 07:05 PM']
They do have a point: a lot of people at the Physics dept here would look up strangely if they came gliding in with their beautiful long veils, and have trouble speaking openly with them. I can imagine that there are congregations who want to make that kind of contact themselves and not "by proxy", and maybe wearing lay-like clothing helps. Not because the [i]Sisters[/i] think it's an obstacle, but because they realise a lot of other people do - which is true.
[/quote]

I can see where you may be coming from. However, I have personally witnessed [i]tons[/i] of times that if a sister acts like a normal human being (which she is), then people will realize that and not have trouble talking to her. A police officer doesn't take off his uniform to do his job, a professor doesn't change into a pair of shorts to make his students feel comfortable, and a sister should not compromise her habit in order to converse with people more easily. That defeats the purpose of wearing it; people have to learn that sisters are normal and that their habit is a symbol of who they are.

The whole purpose of a habit is defeated if you take it off for precisely the reason you [i]should[/i] be wearing it.

Your post didn't seem to indicate whether it was the sisters themselves who are going "undercover" by not wearing habits of it's other people they're training to go undercover, so I might be misinterpreting your point.

If not, I stand on my statement (and the Church's) that you don't take off your habit.

I like the Servants of the Lord and the Virgin of Matara, so I can't really see them doing this.

Lauren

Edited February 13, 2007 by Totus Tuus

[shortnun]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' post='1192957' date='Feb 12 2007, 08:30 PM']
...

The whole purpose of a habit is defeated if you take it off for precisely the reason you [i]should[/i] be wearing it.

Your post didn't seem to indicate whether it was the sisters themselves who are going "undercover" by not wearing habits of it's other people they're training to go undercover, so I might be misinterpreting your point.

If not, I stand on my statement (and the Church's) that you don't take off your habit.

...
[/quote]
Well, we're mostly talking about women's communities here. While it's not normative of all men's communities by any means, religious men do take off their religious dress (collar, cassock, habit, etc) in exchange for plain clothes much more often than women religious do. Not giving an opinion, just stating an observation.

Edited February 13, 2007 by shortnun

[the lords sheep]

[quote] My concern is that since I am down to really three communities who want me to discern with them, I might choose based on the habit -- and wonder if that is just too shallow for words. [/quote]


Just take your time in discerning with them... As you get to know the Sisters and the Lord more and more deeply, it will become apparent exactly where He is calling you, modified habit or not.
As long as you don't rush, you won't make what you call "a superficial decision."
Keep praying and try to remind yourself over and over again "Not my will but yours be done, O Lord" (I have to pray this about 1,000 times a day...)




[quote]
I was chatting with M. Milagro of the Servants of the Lord and the Virgin of Matara (Servidoras, Blue Sisters, however you like to call them smile.gif ) in my diocese. They're building up a community of young people and sending them out to bring the Gospel back in "normal" day-to-day life, because the Sisters feel they can't come to our universities and our workplaces. We're a bit like undercover agents! [/quote]

The Sisters are training us, just to clarify. They always wear the habit. From the SSVM website
[quote] "In each Servant there should be a love for her Habit, it should be like her skin, so that united to the Incarnate Word, who united Heaven and Earth, she may flower into all kinds of good works and be for all the good scent of Christ (2 Cor 2:15)."[/quote]


In Jesus and Mary,
Lauren

Edited February 13, 2007 by the lords sheep

[Piamaria]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' post='1192482' date='Feb 12 2007, 11:18 AM']
If it is shallow, I am probably pretty shallow


Unless a community is in an area where they would be persecuted or killed for wearing a habit (in which case it is not often logical to wear it since you wouldn't be able to live your apostolate of prayer or work...), people need to know that religious women [i]are[/i] religious who are [i]consecrated to God[/i]. That's precisely what a habit is: A symbol of a consecrated person's belonging entirely to God.
[/quote]

me too.

[Megz]

I know my favourite sister had alot alot of trouble adjusting to habited life, on the other hand, another sister I know dosn't wear a traditional habit.
They both live in community...but the sisters in the commuinty with the habit somehow seem more united to eachother, brought together by this similir struggle among others. The ones without, while they are amazing...seem more like close friends...

I don't think its shallow, its you're view of the world. But you do have to be prepared, in any case, for the Church Law to change and to wear a habit. Part of the obediance clause.

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='Megz' post='1193907' date='Feb 13 2007, 03:39 PM']
I know my favourite sister had alot alot of trouble adjusting to habited life, on the other hand, another sister I know dosn't wear a traditional habit.
They both live in community...but the sisters in the commuinty with the habit somehow seem more united to eachother, brought together by this similir struggle among others. The ones without, while they are amazing...seem more like close friends...

[/quote]
That's an interesting insight