VeniteAdoremus Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 [quote name='Totus Tuus' post='1192957' date='Feb 13 2007, 03:30 AM'] I can see where you may be coming from. However, I have personally witnessed [i]tons[/i] of times that if a sister acts like a normal human being (which she is), then people will realize that and not have trouble talking to her. A police officer doesn't take off his uniform to do his job, a professor doesn't change into a pair of shorts to make his students feel comfortable, and a sister should not compromise her habit in order to converse with people more easily. That defeats the purpose of wearing it; people have to learn that sisters are normal and that their habit is a symbol of who they are. The whole purpose of a habit is defeated if you take it off for precisely the reason you [i]should[/i] be wearing it. Your post didn't seem to indicate whether it was the sisters themselves who are going "undercover" by not wearing habits of it's other people they're training to go undercover, so I might be misinterpreting your point. If not, I stand on my statement (and the Church's) that you don't take off your habit. I like the Servants of the Lord and the Virgin of Matara, so I can't really see them doing this. Lauren [/quote] No, it's us I can't imagine the Servidoras without their habits. Just... no. You made a lot of good points there... I think this is one of the topics that I'll change my mind on, with time. However, I do think this may be different in different countries... and in my country, it's just not done to be Catholic. So maybe that's one of the things that made me feel this way.
Zkelly Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 I just kind of skimmed through this thread, so I hope I don't repeat any points. I don't think it's shallow at all to be concerned about an orders habit. Why? Because the habit is more than just "cool" clothes that religious wear. Habits are great symbols that bond the religious to there charism and more specifically to Christ. I would suggest reading this: [url="http://www.carmelitemonks.org/habit.html"]http://www.carmelitemonks.org/habit.html[/url] . It's a website for carmalite hermits that explains there habit, what it is, and why they wear it. Granted that this is a male order, but the same applies to women. There is awsome symbolism in a holy habit. Religious are supposed to be set apart from the world and the habit does that. Religious are supposed to be a bridge between God and man and the habit is the road sign that leads to that bridge. Similar to a police officers uniform or a doctors white coat, it allows people to know what they are there for. Police protect people, doctors heal people, and religious pray for people. I remember, when I first came into the Catholic Church, that I associated the habit directly with prayer. The nun who did our RCIA at my parish is in an order that threw away their habit and I thought that all religious got rid of their habits. (Thank God I was wrong!) However, I remember wondering "Who prays for the world now?" I think the habit is indispensable to religious life and I think the orders that have tossed their habits aside are paying the price now, even the diocesan priesthood.
Totus Tuus Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 (edited) [quote name='Zkelly' post='1194177' date='Feb 13 2007, 07:40 PM'] There is awsome symbolism in a holy habit. Religious are supposed to be set apart from the world and the habit does that. Religious are supposed to be a bridge between God and man and the habit is the road sign that leads to that bridge. Similar to a police officers uniform or a doctors white coat, it allows people to know what they are there for. Police protect people, doctors heal people, and religious pray for people. [/quote] Exactly. [quote]I think the habit is indispensable to religious life[/quote] So does our Holy Mother Church [quote]and I think the orders that have tossed their habits aside are paying the price now, even the diocesan priesthood. [/quote] Yup, because they're not getting any vocations. This generation of solid Catholics wants to go [i]all the way[/i] if they're going to do something. They are not going to embrace an incomplete way of living the religious life when a fundamental aspect of the religious life (the habit) is dropped out of the picture! Edited February 14, 2007 by Totus Tuus
TeresaAvila Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 I don't think it's shallow, the habit was also part of my discernment, as it's symbolic of religious life and who we belong to, and I don't buy into this mentality of the habit is a "barrier" if anything wearing the habit draws more people and also gives people more reassurance, I remember a time in my discernment with an active order who does evangelizing, while sister and I were out going door to door (in a fairly poor neighborhood) a man stops his car and calls over to sister asking her if she has a rosary, so she goes over to him and later shares with me that this man had fallen away and has been wanting for a long time to come back but wasn't sure how or what to do and so she was able to help this man, and had it not been for her being in habit, that life changing moment would have not happened.. the habit says to the world "servant of God" and in so many occupations uniforms are required that are truly unique to that particular occupation and the public doesn't expect them to take off their uniform, so religous shouldn't either! as for modified vs. full habit, I say you just have to leave that all in gods hands and look at thewhole and go deeper in your discernment with god and go where he leads you! God Bless you on this journey and know I'm praying for you!
stlmom Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 An interesting entry Feb. 13, from the [url="http://www.osbboonies.blogspot.com/index.html"]BLOG[/url] of a novice sister from a semi-cloistered contemplative community. The privilege of wearing their modified habit is given only after completing the novitiate. If you take the time to read her other entries, you will note that they are very prayerful contemplatives, devoted to the Rule of St. Benedict.
be_thou_my_vision Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 [quote name='stlmom' post='1195105' date='Feb 14 2007, 04:16 PM'] An interesting entry Feb. 13, from the [url="http://www.osbboonies.blogspot.com/index.html"]BLOG[/url] of a novice sister from a semi-cloistered contemplative community. The privilege of wearing their modified habit is given only after completing the novitiate. If you take the time to read her other entries, you will note that they are very prayerful contemplatives, devoted to the Rule of St. Benedict. [/quote] This is the community I'm living with over the summer! Wahoooo!!!
Marieteresa Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 Sorry to digress here for a second.... What is considered a modified habit? Wearing a simple dress? Or maybe there is no real criteria for wearing a modified habit? Thanks Back to the regularly scheduled program
cmotherofpirl Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 [quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1192853' date='Feb 12 2007, 08:05 PM'] I was chatting with M. Milagro of the Servants of the Lord and the Virgin of Matara (Servidoras, Blue Sisters, however you like to call them ) in my diocese. They're building up a community of young people and sending them out to bring the Gospel back in "normal" day-to-day life, because the Sisters feel they can't come to our universities and our workplaces. We're a bit like undercover agents! They do have a point: a lot of people at the Physics dept here would look up strangely if they came gliding in with their beautiful long veils, and have trouble speaking openly with them. I can imagine that there are congregations who want to make that kind of contact themselves and not "by proxy", and maybe wearing lay-like clothing helps. Not because the [i]Sisters[/i] think it's an obstacle, but because they realise a lot of other people do - which is true. [/quote] The initial encounters might be a bit awkward, until the person in question showed themselves to be a normal intelligent female interested in physics just like all the other students. THis would be more than made up for be the invaluble witness of religious life to everyone on campus. People will not consider a religious vocation until they SEE a religious vocation. That is part of the tragedy of the orders that abandoned their habits.
Guest Sister Jacqulyn Posted February 15, 2007 Posted February 15, 2007 [quote name='TeresaAvila' post='1194818' date='Feb 14 2007, 12:01 PM'] the habit says to the world "servant of God" [/quote] I am reading this thread and I am finding it quite inspiring and interesting! Some of you may already know me. I am a Junior Sister for the Sisters, Servants of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Our congregation wears a "modified" habit and I must admit, as a young sister still discerning this congregation...our habit was and still continues to be a struggle point for me. I completely agree with so many things that all of you have written. Our visible witness is a NON-NEGOTIABLE and the religious life that we aspire to MUST BE A RADICAL SIGN OF GOD IN OUR LIVES! The habit that I wear does say to the world "servant of God" and it is a reminder to people of Him who Is. God has called me to this congregation and I believe that. Right now, I am its youngest member and so I am a part of this generation that so thirsts to radically give all in every way possible to God...and I wish to show it in everything that I do! I find that common characteristic invigorating within much of our faithful youth today. The habit is a sign of our consecration and testifies to[i] who we [/i] are and [i]who's we are [/i] just as much as our actions do.
HeavenlyCalling Posted February 15, 2007 Posted February 15, 2007 [quote name='Marieteresa' post='1195286' date='Feb 14 2007, 07:22 PM'] Sorry to digress here for a second.... What is considered a modified habit? Wearing a simple dress? Or maybe there is no real criteria for wearing a modified habit? Thanks Back to the regularly scheduled program [/quote] I dont know, I have seen different people have different opinions on this. Technically you could consider the Nashville Dominicans habit modified, because they updated in sometime in the 60s or 70s, but if you followed that logic, then the SMME, who wear the same habit as the ND, would not be considered modified because they never had a habit that needed to be updated. I think that most people think of it as a shorter tunic and veil.
stlmom Posted February 15, 2007 Posted February 15, 2007 [quote name='HeavenlyCalling' post='1195479' date='Feb 14 2007, 09:08 PM'] I dont know, I have seen different people have different opinions on this. Technically you could consider the Nashville Dominicans habit modified, because they updated in sometime in the 60s or 70s, but if you followed that logic, then the SMME, who wear the same habit as the ND, would not be considered modified because they never had a habit that needed to be updated. I think that most people think of it as a shorter tunic and veil. [/quote] Back in my day, most sisters' habits were floor length, with heads covered by wimple or coif, and veils that hung down to the waistline. So to me, a modified habit is anything that is shorter than floor length and exposes more of the face.
Marieteresa Posted February 15, 2007 Posted February 15, 2007 Does just wearing a simple dress and no veil....Is this considered a habit?
HeavenlyCalling Posted February 15, 2007 Posted February 15, 2007 [quote name='Marieteresa' post='1195497' date='Feb 14 2007, 10:20 PM'] Does just wearing a simple dress and no veil....Is this considered a habit? [/quote] I dont know, it depends, I suppose that if every one in the order wore it, then yes, it would be. I usually think of a habit as including a veil, but that is just me.
DiscerningSoul Posted February 15, 2007 Posted February 15, 2007 [quote name='Sister Jacqulyn' post='1195394' date='Feb 14 2007, 08:45 PM'] Our visible witness is a NON-NEGOTIABLE and the religious life that we aspire to MUST BE A RADICAL SIGN OF GOD IN OUR LIVES! The habit that I wear does say to the world "servant of God" and it is a reminder to people of Him who Is. [/quote] I belive this, wearing the habit is an important sign, a witness to God's call. I remember when my mom told me to talk to a sister that went to our church, I waited weeks for this "sister" and I went to my mom and asked her where this sister was I did not see her, and she had to point her out to me, because she wore civilian clothes with only a cross around her neck. Another time we had some deaf people at our church and a sister was signing for them, I had no idear she was a sister until father thank her for helping at the masses, she wore a tiny pin on her collar. I have always felt drawn to convents with full traditional habits. Jessica [url="http://www.xanga.com/ADiscerningSoul"]http://www.xanga.com/ADiscerningSoul[/url] A little lamb for God's Will
Zkelly Posted February 15, 2007 Posted February 15, 2007 [quote name='Marieteresa' post='1195497' date='Feb 14 2007, 10:20 PM'] Does just wearing a simple dress and no veil....Is this considered a habit? [/quote] no, I would say it does not. Not just because no veil is worn, but because this doesn't seperate one from the world. In my opinion, it would do nothing that a habit should (see my link to the carmelite site). So for instance [img]http://www.modestapparelusa.com/images/dress_blue_floral_ellen.jpg[/img] is this woman a nun? [img]http://beyondrivalry.blogspirit.com/images/medium_ardethplatte.jpg[/img] what about that woman? How about these women? [img]http://www.bcysth.ca/photo_gallery/events/abuselaunch/images/grannies.jpg[/img] any of those women nuns? or this one? [img]http://my.homewithgod.com/israel/lady/ida3.jpg[/img] or lastly this one: [img]http://www.westga.edu/~cgoodson/nun.jpg[/img] Do you see how much a habit has to set off the religious from the world. It has (again IMHO) to be EASILY recognisable that these people are here to be intercessors and people of prayer. BTW, the second and last pictures were nuns.
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