Official Religion

[Resurrexi]

ty

[Paddington]

StThomasMore,

I love these.
Hopefully you will follow it up with a document I haven't read.

The 2nd question is hard to follow. Could you clarify it?
"more easily." More easily than what?
"every form." Every form including sacrificing virgins, etc?

Peace,
Paddington

Edited February 16, 2007 by Paddington

[SJRod55]

Which 'state' as in a sepcific country or a specific - state as in province etc.

Ambiguity

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Rod' post='1196889' date='Feb 16 2007, 09:40 AM']Which 'state' as in a sepcific country or a specific - state as in province etc.

Ambiguity[/quote]

Hey, don't blame me, blame the person who wrote the document which I directly quoted the second two questions from and paraphrased the first question from.

[Akalyte]

yes
yes
no

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

i voted the same way.


no for the last one, simply because toleration is allowed in certain cases.

[KnightofChrist]

Who knew that New York state had an official religion and was completely constitutional? And would be today, no matter what some activist anti-christian said.

[123]

I guess if the Catholic religion would be made state religion that would make things way to hairy.

Plus, American prides itself of freedom. Religious Freedom is one of them.

Edited February 18, 2007 by GloriaIesusChristi

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote]We highly esteem and love exceedingly the young and vigorous American nation, in which We plainly discern latent forces for the advancement alike of civilization and of Christianity.... The main factor, no doubt, in bringing things into this happy state were the ordinances and decrees of your synods, especially of those which in more recent times were convened and confirmed by the authority of the Apostolic See. But, moreover (a fact which it gives pleasure to acknowledge), thanks are due to the equity of the laws which obtain in America and to the customs of the well-ordered Republic. For the Church amongst you, unopposed by the Constitution and government of your nation, fettered by no hostile legislation, protected against violence by the common laws and the impartiality of the tribunals, is free to live and act without hindrance. [b]Yet, though all this is true, it would be very erroneous to draw the conclusion that in America is to be sought the type of the most desirable status of the Church, or that it would be universally lawful or expedient for State and Church to be, as in America, dissevered and divorced. The fact that Catholicity with you is in good condition, nay, is even enjoying a prosperous growth, is by all means to be attributed to the fecundity with which God has endowed His Church, in virtue of which unless men or circumstances interfere, she spontaneously expands and propagates herself; but she would bring forth more abundant fruits if, in addition to liberty, she enjoyed the favor of the laws and the patronage of the public authority.[/b][/quote]



LONGINQUA
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII ON
CATHOLICISM IN THE
UNITED STATES

[philosophette]

Curious that I just happen to be watching a movie about Queen Elizabeth and Mary Queen of Scots at this point.

What would keep Catholicism as a State religion from not becoming like Saudi Arabia? It has happened in that past. I think that it would be fine if it was the religion most practiced, but to say that it is the "official" religion, or the only permissible religion really does start to sound a lot like Communism...?

I really cannot imagine what a Catholic nation would be like of this kind... Vatican City State would not be a good example of where this has been done well as it is so small.

Please note, I am not saying this is a bad idea, per se, I am just curious as to how this would be envisioned and what this would mean, legally. How would it affect Catholics vs. Non-Catholics..

If the laws in America favored the church, would it favor other Christian faiths as well?

Edited February 20, 2007 by philosobrat

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='philosobrat' post='1200842' date='Feb 19 2007, 05:57 PM']Curious that I just happen to be watching a movie about Queen Elizabeth and Mary Queen of Scots at this point.

What would keep Catholicism as a State religion from not becoming like Saudi Arabia? It has happened in that past. I think that it would be fine if it was the religion most practiced, but to say that it is the "official" religion, or the only permissible religion really does start to sound a lot like Communism...?

I really cannot imagine what a Catholic nation would be like of this kind... Vatican City State would not be a good example of where this has been done well as it is so small.

Please note, I am not saying this is a bad idea, per se, I am just curious as to how this would be envisioned and what this would mean, legally. How would it affect Catholics vs. Non-Catholics..

If the laws in America favored the church, would it favor other Christian faiths as well?[/quote]

Catholicism as the State Religion was never like Mohammadanism in Saudia Arabia is now. The Church-State relationship was ideal in the Middle Ages.

And to your final question: no, at least it shouldn't.

[N/A Gone]

Read

Theopolitical Imagination by Willian Cavenaugh..

[Mr.Cat]

If Catholicism was the State Religion it would require Universal Tolerance of other beliefs, which I don’t know if I would have a problem with.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Yes (ideally)
No (not necessarily)
Yes (inasmuch as they should not be stopped from practicing their own freedom not to be coerced)

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1196316' date='Feb 15 2007, 06:14 PM']ty[/quote]

What's the point of a state religion? You can't force anyone to believe, whatever about external compliance with various standards. It's like God and free will: God could have created us as automata with no capacity to choose evil but then our love and obedience would be meaningless.

Only freedom of thought, freedom of conscience, freedom of belief [i]in spiritual, not constitutional terms[/i] has any meaning. God doesn't want "Catholics" who are forced to believe or at least practice Catholicism; He wants freely given assent, nay, surrender, of the soul to Him. Anything else is just going through the motions.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Syllabus of Errors condemned by Pope Bl. Pius IX']77. In the present day it is no longer expedient that the Catholic religion should be held as the only religion of the State, to the exclusion of all other forms of worship. -- Allocution "Nemo vestrum," July 26, 1855.

78. Hence it has been wisely decided by law, in some Catholic countries, that persons coming to reside therein shall enjoy the public exercise of their own peculiar worship. -- Allocution "Acerbissimum," Sept. 27, 1852.

79. Moreover, it is false that the civil liberty of every form of worship, and the full power, given to all, of overtly and publicly manifesting any opinions whatsoever and thoughts, conduce more easily to corrupt the morals and minds of the people, and to propagate the pest of indifferentism. -- Allocution "Nunquam fore," Dec. 15, 1856.[/quote]

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Syllabus of Errors condemned by Pope Bl. Pius IX']77. In the present day it is no longer expedient that the Catholic religion should be held as the only religion of the State, to the exclusion of all other forms of worship. -- Allocution "Nemo vestrum," July 26, 1855.

78. Hence it has been wisely decided by law, in some Catholic countries, that persons coming to reside therein shall enjoy the public exercise of their own peculiar worship. -- Allocution "Acerbissimum," Sept. 27, 1852.

79. Moreover, it is false that the civil liberty of every form of worship, and the full power, given to all, of overtly and publicly manifesting any opinions whatsoever and thoughts, conduce more easily to corrupt the morals and minds of the people, and to propagate the pest of indifferentism. -- Allocution "Nunquam fore," Dec. 15, 1856.[/quote]

Do you wish to say that Peter contradicts himself or would you rather say that you misunderstand him?

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1203622' date='Feb 23 2007, 05:58 PM']Do you wish to say that Peter contradicts himself or would you rather say that you misunderstand him?[/quote]

You do realize that that quote was taken from the Syllabus of Errors which was a long list of condemned errors. At the top of the quote it said "Syllabus of Errors condemned by Bl. Pius IX". That means that the quotes in the quote box are several anathematized errors.

Edited February 24, 2007 by StThomasMore

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

The point of a state Religion to so that the correct religion (Catholicism) receives money, and support from the government, allowing it to prosper and grow. It does not necessarily mean that anyone is forced to believe in it (although it could ). If there Catholicism became the state religion, it would be protected by the laws, which would also put all of the false religions in check (ie. making it illegal to convert Catholics, propogate their faiths, or worship publicly).

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1203772' date='Feb 23 2007, 11:38 PM']It does not necessarily mean that anyone is forced to believe in it (although it could ).[/quote]
Do you favor this position?