Official Religion

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1204377' date='Feb 25 2007, 01:06 PM']no i believe in human dignity. But from what i understand, dignity comes from the perfection of man.[/quote]
Human dignity stems from the fact that all are made in the image of God. Thus, St. Basil of Caesarea says that while the likeness to God is lost with the fall, the image of God is not. As such, everyone has freedom and liberty and far from a right to practice that freedom for evil, rather a right not to be coerced. For the state to sponsor false religions is wrong, but for the state to force one particular religion is also wrong. If the state stops false religions from being practiced, then it is coercing. What I will say is that the state may and should have Catholicism as an official religion and should try to encourage the faith, to help catechesis along, and to bring about the conversion of its citizens without making it the case that they have no other choice but to become Catholic.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1204383' date='Feb 25 2007, 01:16 PM']Human dignity stems from the fact that all are made in the image of God. Thus, St. Basil of Caesarea says that while the likeness to God is lost with the fall, the image of God is not. As such, everyone has freedom and liberty and far from a right to practice that freedom for evil, rather a right not to be coerced. For the state to sponsor false religions is wrong, but for the state to force one particular religion is also wrong. If the state stops false religions from being practiced, then it is coercing. What I will say is that the state may and should have Catholicism as an official religion and should try to encourage the faith, to help catechesis along, and to bring about the conversion of its citizens without making it the case that they have no other choice but to become Catholic.[/quote]


i agree with you

please forgive me, i misunderstood your argument. i falsely thought that you were saying that no state should have Catholicism as the official religion.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1204370' date='Feb 25 2007, 10:53 AM']My point, STM, was that you hold there to be a contradiction between current teaching and past teaching. As such, you either believe that Peter is contradicting himself or you concede that you are misunderstanding either the past or current teaching. My understanding really has nothing to do with the question, because I don't see any apparent contradiction.[/quote]

I don't see a contradiction. I just believe that the teaching from the Second Oecumenical Council of the Vatican should be reconciled to the 1940 years of Catholicism before the Council, not [i]vice versa[/i].

[Mr.Cat]

Post #20 ( [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=64688&st=20#"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...4688&st=20#[/url] )

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' post='1204714' date='Feb 25 2007, 10:39 PM']Post #20 ( [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=64688&st=20#"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...4688&st=20#[/url] )[/quote]

already read it

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1204506' date='Feb 25 2007, 06:49 PM']I don't see a contradiction. I just believe that the teaching from the Second Oecumenical Council of the Vatican should be reconciled to the 1940 years of Catholicism before the Council, not [i]vice versa[/i].[/quote]
The old is clarified in the new, the new is rooted in the old. I don't think it's a one-way thing.

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1204357' date='Feb 25 2007, 11:46 AM']Can you find church documents to support this? or is it just your opinion?

the following is condemned by Pius IX:[/quote]

It's not a matter of opinion or Church documents. God wants our assent to Him and the Truth to be freely given, period. If there's any compulsion involved because we "have to," then our compliance is worthless. If the Church needs the State to prop it up through monetary transfers, laws, or whatever, we've lost. It's only when we can "win" in the "marketplace of ideas" through living and preaching the Gospel and the truth of Jesus Christ that we'll really change lives and make a difference in this world. Being propped up by the State is nothing more than whitewashing a tomb, to paraphrase Our Lord.

Indeed, I would even go so far as to say that entanglement between the Church and State is deleterious to the Church (see: Franco's Spain). The Lord said that His Kingdom was not of this world. That's good enough for me.

BTW, the more something looks like the Taliban, the less I want to have to do with it.

My two cents.

[FullTruth]

As a Libertarian, I don't think Government should fund or shove any religion down people's throats. Let every organization, business, church and person sink or swim on it's own accord.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1206712' date='Mar 2 2007, 12:22 AM']As a Libertarian, I don't think Government should fund or shove any religion down people's throats. Let every organization, business, church and person sink or swim on it's own accord.[/quote]
So you don't believe in objective good?

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1206992' date='Mar 2 2007, 06:58 PM']So you don't believe in objective good?[/quote]
I find, in this day and age, there is very few organizations, if any, that do any truly objective good.

On why I don't want to see government involving itself in religion is simple. If the government funds a religion and a religion and a government become 'bed fellows', and nothing good comes of it. The government and the religion start to control each other, until you have the religion start making policies which favours it more than people.

I believe people should come together to help each other, but not the government. It's not like the government has done a crack up job since 9/11.

The last two of the people saved from 9/11 were found by a Marine who got his orders from God, Not George Bush. And there's the whole Katrina catastrophy. It sickens me that people wanted to give George Bush and Fema advice on how to minimize the effects of Katrina on New Orleans before Katrina touched New Orleans, and it fell on deaf ears. It's absolutely sickening.

I mentioned in a blog, which got edited by my editor.

"If George Bush is the Christian he claims to be, why didn't he pray to God for God's choice for the leader of Fema. If he had, you'd think God would have given him the advice that George Bush should pick someone who had experience with massive catastrophies."

Anyways, government and religion don't mix. The moment you fund a state religion, whatever religion gets picked will ultimately get a stranglehold on a nation, and turn it into something very destructive.

Edited March 3, 2007 by FullTruth