How Far Should One Go To Defend The Eucharist?

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

Let's say sacrilege is going to be committed, how far should one go to stop it from happening?

im not talking about someone entering a church and stealing the Eucharist. What if a Non-Catholic plans on receiving the Eucharist? How far should one go to stop him/her?



thanks

[KnightofChrist]

Beg with him, plead with him not to take it, inform the priest if possible... other than that physically stopping him would lead to more trouble

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1199887' date='Feb 18 2007, 06:47 PM']Beg with him, plead with him not to take it, inform the priest if possible... other than that physically stopping him would lead to more trouble[/quote]

ok. Violence would be out of the question.

[Moneybags]

Do [u]everything[/u] possible. Martyrs have died to protect Jesus in the Eucharis!

[Didymus]

I agree with with Knight. If deliberate sacrilege isnt the motive, I wouldnt get physical. But if someone were going to desecrate the Eucharist, or a wiccan were to steal it, I would do anything to stop them.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

I am assuming you find yourself in this situation? Why does the non-Catholic want to receive?

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='thedude' post='1199917' date='Feb 18 2007, 08:21 PM']I am assuming you find yourself in this situation? Why does the non-Catholic want to receive?[/quote]


i don't presently, but i anticipate it may be a problem, and it has been a problem in the past. Mostly it is a problem with my family members (who do not practice) wanting to receive.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1199918' date='Feb 18 2007, 08:24 PM']i don't presently, but i anticipate it may be a problem, and it has been a problem in the past. Mostly it is a problem with my family members (who do not practice) wanting to receive.[/quote]
You explain what they propose to do is wrong, you can explain to the priest its going to happen. Then the choice is theirs.

[Moneybags]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1199927' date='Feb 18 2007, 07:33 PM']You explain what they propose to do is wrong, you can explain to the priest its going to happen. Then the choice is theirs.[/quote]

If the priest and the person who intends to sacrilegiously receive do nothing then the faithful Catholic must do [u]something[/u] to intervene. Sacrilege must be stopped. Jesus Christ will reward us for all we do to stop sacrilege.

[quote]In this regard it is well to recall the teaching of the Church. Holy Communion must be received only while one is in the grace of God. Therefore, when one has committed a mortal sin, even if one has repented of it and has a great desire to receive Holy Communion, it is necessary and indispensible to confess oneself first before receiving Holy Communion, otherwise one commits a most grave sin of sacrilege, for which Jesus said to St. Bridget, “there does not exist on earth a punishment which is great enough to punish it sufficiently!”

St. Ambrose said that persons who commit this sacrilege “come into church with a few sins, and leave it burdened with many.” St. Cyril wrote something yet stronger: “They who make a sacrilegious Communion receive satan and Jesus Christ into their hearts — satan, that they may let him rule, and Jesus Christ, that they may offer Him in sacrifice as a Victim to satan.” Thus the Catechism of the Council of Trent (De Euch., v.i) declares: “As of all the sacred mysteries ... none can compare with the ... Eucharist, so likewise for no crime is there heavier punishment to be feared from God than for the unholy or irreligious use by the faithful of that which ... contains the very Author and Source of holiness.”

[url="http://www.fatima.org/joel/jo-pg037.asp"]http://www.fatima.org/joel/jo-pg037.asp[/url][/quote]

Edited February 19, 2007 by St. Benedict

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='St. Benedict' post='1199941' date='Feb 18 2007, 08:47 PM']If the priest and the person who intends to sacrilegiously receive do nothing then the faithful Catholic must do [u]something[/u] to intervene. Sacrilege must be stopped. Jesus Christ will reward us for all we do to stop sacrilege.[/quote]
You have no right to physically touch another person, or create a scandal by blocking them. It is up to the priest to deal with this, not you.

[Moneybags]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1199947' date='Feb 18 2007, 07:54 PM']You have no right to physically touch another person, or create a scandal by blocking them. It is up to the priest to deal with this, not you.[/quote]

I'm not ever advocating violence, but I see nothing wrong with blocking them. Would you have blocked the exectioners beating and torturing Jesus or just let them walk on past? I would stand in their way whether or not I would be harmed. The same is occuring today. So you would do nothing then and just let the person commit a sacrilege? I would block the, if need be, to 1) help that person's soul but mainly 2) to protect Our Lord in the Eucharist.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='St. Benedict' post='1199950' date='Feb 18 2007, 08:59 PM']I'm not ever advocating violence, but I see nothing wrong with blocking them. Would you have blocked the exectioners beating and torturing Jesus or just let them walk on past? I would stand in their way whether or not I would be harmed. The same is occuring today. So you would do nothing then and just let the person commit a sacrilege? I would block the, if need be, to 1) help that person's soul but mainly 2) to protect Our Lord in the Eucharist.[/quote]
Again you have no right to block someone in Church. If you did you would be removed and create a scandal during Mass. THe priest is the only one who should be disciplining or refusing Communion to someone. You are laity, remember.

Do you really think Jesus Christ needs protection? I understand the sentiment, but after all He is GOd, and will deal with the culprit. There is a big difference between someone taking Communion unworthiily and someone out to commit actual desecration.

[Resurrexi]

If a non-Catholic or a an unrepentant public sinner were attempting to recieve, I would run and alert the priest.

If someone were attempting to steal the Sacred Host or in any other way harm It, I would go as far as to shoot him if I had a gun, or if I didn't somehow knock him out.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1199957' date='Feb 18 2007, 09:09 PM']If a non-Catholic or a an unrepentant public sinner were attempting to recieve, I would run and alert the priest.

If someone were attempting to steal the Sacred Host or in any other way harm It, I would go as far as to shoot him if I had a gun, or if I didn't somehow knock him out.[/quote]
First you would have to know someone is non-catholic. If you know they are you can alert the priest, then he handles it from there.

Second how can you determine someone is an unrepentant public sinner, you gonna read their soul or something? What if they went to confession before Mass? You are NOT qualified to decide this.

Third, how would you know someone is going to steal a host ahead of time? Do you carry guns to church on a regular basis? You cannot commit a crime to prevent a crime.

Your zeal is commendable.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1199982' date='Feb 18 2007, 09:30 PM']First you would have to know someone is non-catholic. If you know they are you can alert the priest, then he handles it from there.

Second how can you determine someone is an unrepentant public sinner, you gonna read their soul or something? What if they went to confession before Mass? You are NOT qualified to decide this.

Third, how would you know someone is going to steal a host ahead of time? Do you carry guns to church on a regular basis? You cannot commit a crime to prevent a crime.

Your zeal is commendable.[/quote]


i agree

[Moneybags]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1199954' date='Feb 18 2007, 08:05 PM']Do you really think Jesus Christ needs protection? I understand the sentiment, but after all He is GOd, and will deal with the culprit. There is a big difference between someone taking Communion unworthiily and someone out to commit actual desecration.[/quote]

Yes, He does need to be protected in the Sacrament. And if the priest is not going to do anything then it is a faithful Catholic's duty to protect Our Lord from being harmed. Preventing sins occurring now would have decreased Our Lord's pain on the cross. We must prevent a sacrilege. We should be willing to give up our lives to protect the Eucharist!

[quote][i]CCC 598

In her Magisterial teaching of the faith and in the witness of her saints, the Church has never forgotten that "sinners were the authors and the ministers of all the sufferings that the divine Redeemer endured."389 Taking into account the fact that our sins affect Christ himself,390 the Church does not hesitate to impute to Christians the gravest responsibility for the torments inflicted upon Jesus, a responsibility with which they have all too often burdened the Jews alone:

We must regard as guilty all those who continue to relapse into their sins. Since our sins made the Lord Christ suffer the torment of the cross, those who plunge themselves into disorders and crimes crucify the Son of God anew in their hearts (for he is in them) and hold him up to contempt. And it can be seen that our crime in this case is greater in us than in the Jews. As for them, according to the witness of the Apostle, "None of the rulers of this age understood this; for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory." We, however, profess to know him. And when we deny him by our deeds, we in some way seem to lay violent hands on him.391

Nor did demons crucify him; it is you who have crucified him and crucify him still, when you delight in your vices and sins.392[/i]

Each of us must realize that we continue to be the author's of Christ's Passion and Death. Jesus Christ died outside of time for all men - past, present, and future - to have the choice to be able to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. And, in order to do this, Jesus Christ had to take upon Himself the death sentence each of us incurs by each and every sin we commit.

So, every action we do now has a direct effect on Jesus Christ. If I were to hit a window with a bat, it would shatter and break. The same is true of our sins. We continually wound and shatter Our Savior's body by our sins. Jesus suffered a certain amount of pain that day on Calvary, but our sins today increased the pain He suffered back then. So, if we continually sin we realistically continue to inflict pain on Our Savior in the Scourging, the Carrying of the Cross, and His Crucifixion. We take the role of his executioners if we continue to relapse in sin. We should make it our firm will that we would rather die than to sin; St. Maria Goretti did just that at the age of only 12 years.[/quote]

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1199982' date='Feb 18 2007, 07:30 PM']First you would have to know someone is non-catholic. If you know they are you can alert the priest, then he handles it from there.

Second how can you determine someone is an unrepentant public sinner, you gonna read their soul or something? What if they went to confession before Mass? You are NOT qualified to decide this.

Third, how would you know someone is going to steal a host ahead of time? Do you carry guns to church on a regular basis? You cannot commit a crime to prevent a crime.

Your zeal is commendable.[/quote]

I would only do this is I knew they were non-Catholic by my personal relation with them or if I knew they were a non-Catholic by knowing of them. A public unrepentant sinner would be someone that you know was a pimp, or a prostitute, or someone who was living in sin. Of course I don't carry guns to church and I don't even own a gun and I've never touched one in my life except at a camp. You must do anything you can to protect the Holy Eucharist.

[Moneybags]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1200002' date='Feb 18 2007, 08:36 PM']You must do anything you can to protect the Holy Eucharist.[/quote]

You couldn't be more right. It is that simple - [i]anything[/i].

[Nathan]

Haha. St. Thomas More rules.

[avemaria40]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1200002' date='Feb 18 2007, 09:36 PM']A public unrepentant sinner would be someone that you know was a pimp, or a prostitute, or someone who was living in sin.[/quote]
Again, how would you know if they didn't somehow make it to a Confessional some time before they went to Mass? Or had at least the intention of doing so, along with a perfect act of contrition?

Btw, not all prostitutes have a high level of culpability. A huge number of them have been sold into sexual slavery, which is why they do what they do.