How Far Should One Go To Defend The Eucharist?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1200002' date='Feb 18 2007, 09:36 PM']I would only do this is I knew they were non-Catholic by my personal relation with them or if I knew they were a non-Catholic by knowing of them. A public unrepentant sinner would be someone that you know was a pimp, or a prostitute, or someone who was living in sin. Of course I don't carry guns to church and I don't even own a gun and I've never touched one in my life except at a camp. You must do anything you can to protect the Holy Eucharist.[/quote]
Again. You are NOT QUALIFIED to determine who is in a state of grace.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='avemaria40' post='1200009' date='Feb 18 2007, 07:43 PM']Again, how would you know if they didn't somehow make it to a Confessional some time before they went to Mass? Or had at least the intention of doing so, along with a perfect act of contrition?

Btw, not all prostitutes have a high level of culpability. A huge number of them have been sold into sexual slavery, which is why they do what they do.[/quote]
It is unlikely that they would go to confession, but if they did, I'm sure the priest would let me know after I told him about the prostitute trying to recieve.

[quote name='Redemptoris Sacramentum']6. Complaints Regarding Abuses in Liturgical Matters

[183.] In an altogether particular manner, [u][b]let everyone do all that is in their power to ensure that the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist will be protected from any and every irreverence or distortion[/b][/u] and that all abuses be thoroughly corrected. This is a most serious duty incumbent upon each and every one, and all are bound to carry it out without any favouritism.

[184.] Any Catholic, whether Priest or Deacon or lay member of Christ’s faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law, or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff.[290] It is fitting, however, insofar as possible, that the report or complaint be submitted first to the diocesan Bishop. This is naturally to be done in truth and charity.[/quote]

[Moneybags]

It's clear from the above excerpt from Redemptoris Sacramentum that we must do ANYTHING, even standing in front of the person.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1200015' date='Feb 18 2007, 09:47 PM']It is unlikely that they would go to confession, but if they did, I'm sure the priest would let me know after I told him about the prostitute trying to recieve.[/quote]
Again you cannot decide if someone is a "public sinner" or not. You have no clue.

[Birgitta Noel]

The arrogance many display here is astounding.

I for one would be horribly offended if you felt that a) you had the right to inquire as to the state of my soul to the priest, which is essentially what you are doing if you are alerting the priest to the potential sin and expecting an answer that will determine whether or not you will "intervene" and b) if the priest felt that he had any obligation to inform you of the state of my soul, or if he felt he had the permission to do so. In fact, one might even argue that to do so violates the seal of the confessional.

Edited February 19, 2007 by The Little Way

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='The Little Way' post='1200073' date='Feb 18 2007, 11:01 PM']The arrogance many display here is astounding.

I for one would be horribly offended if you felt that a) you had the right to inquire as to the state of my soul to the priest, which is essentially what you are doing if you are alerting the priest to the potential sin and expecting an answer that will determine whether or not you will "intervene" and b) if the priest felt that he had any obligation to inform you of the state of my soul, or if he felt he had the permission to do so. In fact, one might even argue that to do so violates the seal of the confessional.[/quote]


all that is being suggested is alerting the priest if you know someone that is a non-catholic, or someone that YOU KNOW FOR A FACT is not in a state of grace that is trying to receive communion.

[Birgitta Noel]

Ummm, no.

1. STM said [quote]It is unlikely that they would go to confession, but if they did, I'm sure the priest would let me know after I told him about the prostitute trying to recieve.[/quote]

2. YOU HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING whether or not a person is in a state of grace unless you absolved him or her personally. Last time I checked you weren't a priest.

[jmjtina]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1199884' date='Feb 18 2007, 04:42 PM']Let's say sacrilege is going to be committed, how far should one go to stop it from happening?

im not talking about someone entering a church and stealing the Eucharist. What if a Non-Catholic plans on receiving the Eucharist? How far should one go to stop him/her?
thanks[/quote]


usually a non-catholic who plans to recieve has no clue to our rules and have probably been exposed to those Protestant cracker and grape juice ceremonies.

sometimes a simple explanation will suffice. Sometimes a smack to the face will suffice.

whatever works.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='jmjtina' post='1200082' date='Feb 18 2007, 11:14 PM']usually a non-catholic who plans to recieve has no clue to our rules and have probably been exposed to those Protestant cracker and grape juice ceremonies.

sometimes a simple explanation will suffice. Sometimes a smack to the face will suffice.

whatever works.[/quote]


Some of them do not know, and for that i don't blame them. but other's think "it's a stupid rule" then the smack is needed.

[CatholicCid]

I don't think one should stop a Catholic from recieving, for that decision is between them and God. You can inform them of reasoning and such, but in the end, you cannot judge their soul.
They could have just shot a man and then have a full turn of heart, and hold a true perfect act of contrition in their heart. I would also not ask the Priest if so and so had confessed or expect him to tell me, due to the Seal of the Confessional.

As for a Non-Catholic, I would explain it to them, inform the priest if possible, beg them, plead them, and use some physical force if necessary (while preventing scandal... Ie - I won't punch them in the face in the communion line). If a child is going to put his hand into a flame, I will wrench it back to keep him from getting burned. But if one is truly determined, then I would pray that they would see the truth.

[hoosieranna]

Let me preface by saying that I am not Catholic. I'm a Christian currently unaffiliated with a specific denomination. I moved to a different state to go to school and don't have a church at the moment. I'm NOT one of those people who makes things up as they go, or does a pick and choose until they have assembled a system that works for them.

I've been to mass with friends and haven't tried to take communion. It's a rule that's important to Catholics and I respect it. I think most non-Catholics would take a similar stance. They might think it's a strange rule, but wouldn't argue the point. It would be disrespectful and counter to the point of worship.

If someone is so determined to take communion they would probably go to one of those "grape juice and cracker" services anyway. I would ask that someone tell me politely what the reason is and leave it at that. It's my decision to partake or not-see above, I DO respect the rule. The thinking is, "if I incur penalties by partaking when I should not, it's my business."

This is not meant to offend, and I sincerely apologize if it does. It's just a thought on the issue from someone who has been in the position of not being able to partake.

Edited February 19, 2007 by Nadezhda

[aalpha1989]

I was actually in this situation earlier this year. At my school, one of my nonCatholic friends said that she was gonna receive communion at Mass because she didn't want to be the only one not doing it. I went to the chaplain and said "Father, one of my friends that isn't Catholic said that she's going to receive Communion tomorrow...." and he said that it was ok he was calling all non Catholics to the chapel before Mass to explain to them why they couldnt.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='Nadezhda' post='1200110' date='Feb 18 2007, 11:59 PM']Let me preface by saying that I am not Catholic. I'm a Christian currently unaffiliated with a specific denomination. I moved to a different state to go to school and don't have a church at the moment. I'm NOT one of those people who makes things up as they go, or does a pick and choose until they have assembled a system that works for them.

I've been to mass with friends and haven't tried to take communion. It's a rule that's important to Catholics and I respect it. I think most non-Catholics would take a similar stance. They might think it's a strange rule, but wouldn't argue the point. It would be disrespectful and counter to the point of worship.

If someone is so determined to take communion they would probably go to one of those "grape juice and cracker" services anyway. I would ask that someone tell me politely what the reason is and leave it at that. It's my decision partake or not-see above, I DO respect the rule. If I incur penalties by partaking when I should not, it's my business.

This is not meant to offend, and I sincerely apologize if it does. It's just a thought on the issue from someone who has been in the position of not being able to partake.[/quote]


i understand. It is not just that you are incurring penalties, you are also committing sacrilege by unworthily receiving our Lord.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='jmjtina' post='1200082' date='Feb 18 2007, 11:14 PM']usually a non-catholic who plans to recieve has no clue to our rules and have probably been exposed to those Protestant cracker and grape juice ceremonies.

sometimes a simple explanation will suffice. Sometimes a smack to the face will suffice.

whatever works.[/quote]
I know you are from Texas, but I can't imagine you smacking anyone

[jmjtina]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1200117' date='Feb 18 2007, 10:06 PM']I know you are from Texas, but I can't imagine you smacking anyone [/quote]


flowery may have a different view on that comment!!!!!!

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='The Little Way' post='1200079' date='Feb 18 2007, 09:09 PM']Ummm, no.

1. STM said

2. YOU HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING whether or not a person is in a state of grace unless you absolved him or her personally. Last time I checked you weren't a priest.[/quote]


[quote name='Code of Canon Law of the Latin Church']Can. 915 Those upon whom the penalty of excommunication or interdict has been imposed or declared, and others who obstinately persist in manifest grave sin, are not to be admitted to Holy Communion.[/quote]

[Birgitta Noel]

That's fine to quote the Canon, but it does not say that you, who are not a priest, have any right to determine whether that person meets the requirements of that Canon.