Are Popes Guaranteed Salvation?

[Nathan]

Nope.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Very efficient use of space! I applaud you both!

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='thedude' post='1204984' date='Feb 26 2007, 08:30 PM']Very efficient use of space! I applaud you both![/quote]


Yeah, if the question is just what's in the title, then the answer is no. Nathan is correct.

[jeffpugh]

That is odd, I did have a description/explanation to why I asked this question... was it deleted or did it not appear because the server took a while to respond (ie an error)?

[Resurrexi]

No. Read the life story of Pope Alexander VI.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1205057' date='Feb 26 2007, 10:18 PM']That is odd, I did have a description/explanation to why I asked this question... was it deleted or did it not appear because the server took a while to respond (ie an error)?[/quote]
Phorum error. It happens from time to time.

[thessalonian]

I do appluad the efficiency of the answers. I will (or should I say the scriptures will) however be a bit more verbose. Below, Jesus answers a question by PETER. In it he makes the point that the Steward who was doing the Lord's will for a time and then started to sin would be cast out with the unbelievers. If you are familiar with the parrallel of Matt 16:18 and Is 22:22 I think that Jesus uses the word steward here is significant. Popes are held to a higher standard than those who have less ability to know the truth.


Luke 12
35: "Let your loins be girded and your lamps burning,
36: and be like men who are waiting for their master to come home from the marriage feast, so that they may open to him at once when he comes and knocks.
37: Blessed are those servants whom the master finds awake when he comes; truly, I say to you, he will gird himself and have them sit at table, and he will come and serve them.
38: If he comes in the second watch, or in the third, and finds them so, blessed are those servants!
39: But know this, that if the householder had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have left his house to be broken into.
40: You also must be ready; for the Son of man is coming at an unexpected hour."
41:[b] Peter said, "[/b]Lord, are you telling this parable for us or for all?"
42: And the Lord said, "Who then is the faithful and wise [b]steward,[/b] whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time?
43: Blessed is that servant whom his master when he comes will find so doing.
44: Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions.
45: But if that servant says to himself, `My master is delayed in coming,' and begins to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink and get drunk,
46: the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will punish him, and put him with the unfaithful.
47: And that servant who knew his master's will, but did not make ready or act according to his will, shall receive a severe beating.
48: But he who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, shall receive a light beating. Every one to whom much is given, of him will much be required; and of him to whom men commit much they will demand the more.
49: "I came to cast fire upon the earth; and would that it were already kindled!
50: I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how I am constrained until it is accomplished!
51: Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division;
52: for henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three;
53: they will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against her mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law."
54: He also said to the multitudes, "When you see a cloud rising in the west, you say at once, `A shower is coming'; and so it happens.
55: And when you see the south wind blowing, you say, `There will be scorching heat'; and it happens.
56: You hypocrites! You know how to interpret the appearance of earth and sky; but why do you not know how to interpret the present time?
57: "And why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?
58: As you go with your accuser before the magistrate, make an effort to settle with him on the way, lest he drag you to the judge, and the judge hand you over to the officer, and the officer put you in prison.
59: I tell you, you will never get out till you have paid the very last copper."

[thessalonian]

I do appluad the efficiency of the answers. I will (or should I say the scriptures will) however be a bit more verbose. Below, Jesus answers a question by PETER. In it he makes the point that the Steward who was doing the Lord's will for a time and then started to sin would be cast out with the unbelievers. If you are familiar with the parrallel of Matt 16:18 and Is 22:22 I think that Jesus uses the word steward here is significant. Popes are held to a higher standard than those who have less ability to know the truth.


Luke 12
35: "Let your loins be girded and your lamps burning,
36: and be like men who are waiting for their master to come home from the marriage feast, so that they may open to him at once when he comes and knocks.
37: Blessed are those servants whom the master finds awake when he comes; truly, I say to you, he will gird himself and have them sit at table, and he will come and serve them.
38: If he comes in the second watch, or in the third, and finds them so, blessed are those servants!
39: But know this, that if the householder had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have left his house to be broken into.
40: You also must be ready; for the Son of man is coming at an unexpected hour."
41:[b] Peter said, "[/b]Lord, are you telling this parable for us or for all?"
42: And the Lord said, "Who then is the faithful and wise [b]steward,[/b] whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time?
43: Blessed is that servant whom his master when he comes will find so doing.
44: Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions.
45: But if that servant says to himself, `My master is delayed in coming,' and begins to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink and get drunk,
46: the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will punish him, and put him with the unfaithful.
47: And that servant who knew his master's will, but did not make ready or act according to his will, shall receive a severe beating.
48: But he who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, shall receive a light beating. Every one to whom much is given, of him will much be required; and of him to whom men commit much they will demand the more.
49: "I came to cast fire upon the earth; and would that it were already kindled!
50: I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how I am constrained until it is accomplished!
51: Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division;
52: for henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three;
53: they will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against her mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law."
54: He also said to the multitudes, "When you see a cloud rising in the west, you say at once, `A shower is coming'; and so it happens.
55: And when you see the south wind blowing, you say, `There will be scorching heat'; and it happens.
56: You hypocrites! You know how to interpret the appearance of earth and sky; but why do you not know how to interpret the present time?
57: "And why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?
58: As you go with your accuser before the magistrate, make an effort to settle with him on the way, lest he drag you to the judge, and the judge hand you over to the officer, and the officer put you in prison.
59: I tell you, you will never get out till you have paid the very last copper."

[thessalonian]

This dang forum is messed up. It actually posted.

Edited February 27, 2007 by thessalonian

[jeffpugh]

How about that... btw Great bible quotes. Thanks for clearing this up.

[got2luvjc]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1205066' date='Feb 26 2007, 10:35 PM']No. Read the life story of Pope Alexander VI.[/quote]

hehehe.....

I don't think a Pope should be Pope and also king of a country... not a good idea... (we talked about P.A.6. in my US History class)

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='got2luvjc' post='1207039' date='Mar 2 2007, 06:36 PM']hehehe.....

I don't think a Pope should be Pope and also king of a country... not a good idea... (we talked about P.A.6. in my US History class)[/quote]

Then you are in an error that was condemned by Pius IX...

[quote name='The Syllabus of Errors condemned by Pope Bl. Pius IX']76. The abolition of the temporal power of which the Apostolic See is possessed would contribute in the greatest degree to the liberty and prosperity of the Church.—Allocutions "Quibus quantisque," April 20, 1849, "Si semper antea," May 20, 1850.[/quote]

[N/A Gone]

interesting, so what do you do Mr. More? Pay taxes? use civil services? Pledge?

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Revprodeji' post='1207770' date='Mar 4 2007, 11:00 AM']interesting, so what do you do Mr. More? Pay taxes? use civil services? Pledge?[/quote]

If you are were a citizen of the Papal States or are a citizen of the State of the Vatican.

[N/A Gone]

I think you might have a typo, cause I dont understand.

I know you're a kid, so taxes and being in the military does not apply. But I would be curious what your other theopolitical ideals are