Banning Sin

[hoosieranna]

I thought the whole point was to avoid sin in the first place, thereby exercising free will and staying good with God. Maybe I missed something.

[kujo]

[quote name='Nadezhda' post='1220913' date='Mar 28 2007, 12:18 AM']I thought the whole point was to avoid sin in the first place, thereby exercising free will and staying good with God. Maybe I missed something.[/quote]

Absolutely correct. We are to FREELY CHOOSE Christ, rejecting all that isn't of Him. But the question here is whether it is the job of a nation's governing-body to pass legislation making it a crime to commit certain sins.

[hoosieranna]

[quote name='kujo' post='1220923' date='Mar 27 2007, 10:32 PM']Absolutely correct. We are to FREELY CHOOSE Christ, rejecting all that isn't of Him. But the question here is whether it is the job of a nation's governing-body to pass legislation making it a crime to commit certain sins.[/quote]

Oh, okay. Thanks.

[Resurrexi]

I voted for all sins, natural law, sodomy, fornication, masturbation, non-procreative (not even having the possibility of conception) sex acts, condoms, abortion, excessive speeding and being non-Christian.

The teaching that Catholics must do their best to make sure that civil laws are in conformity with the laws of nature is found in the Syllabus:

[quote][b]The Syllabus of Errors condemned by Bl. Pope Pius IX:[/b]
56. Moral laws do not stand in need of the divine sanction, and it is not at all necessary that human laws should be made conformable to the laws of nature and receive their power of binding from God. -- Allocution "Maxima quidem," June 9, 1862.
[url="http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm"]http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm[/url][/quote]

Sodomy, fornication, masturbation, sex acts which have no possibility of procreation, use of condoms, abortion and excessive speeding are all against the Decalogue and are therefore all against the natural law (The Decalogue is just the Natural Law restated)

[quote][b]The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Part III:[/b]
But, lest the people, aware of the abrogation of the Mosaic Law, may imagine that the precepts of the Decalogue are no longer obligatory, it should be taught that when God gave the Law to Moses, He did not so much establish a new code, as render more luminous that divine light* which the depraved morals and long-continued perversity of man had at that time almost obscured. It is most certain that we are not bound to obey the Commandments because they were delivered by Moses, but because they are implanted in the hearts of all, and have been explained and confirmed by Christ our Lord.
[url="http://catecheticsonline.com/Trent3.php"]http://catecheticsonline.com/Trent3.php[/url][/quote]

Being non-Christian should also be against the law as follows from the Syllabus.

[quote][b]The Syllabus of Errors condemned by Pope Bl. Pius IX:[/b]
77. In the present day it is no longer expedient that the Catholic religion should be held as the only religion of the State, to the exclusion of all other forms of worship. -- Allocution "Nemo vestrum," July 26, 1855.

78. Hence it has been wisely decided by law, in some Catholic countries, that persons coming to reside therein shall enjoy the public exercise of their own peculiar worship. -- Allocution "Acerbissimum," Sept. 27, 1852.

79. Moreover, it is false that the civil liberty of every form of worship, and the full power, given to all, of overtly and publicly manifesting any opinions whatsoever and thoughts, conduce more easily to corrupt the morals and minds of the people, and to propagate the pest of indifferentism. -- Allocution "Nunquam fore," Dec. 15, 1856.
[url="http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm"]http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm[/url][/quote]

[Resurrexi]

I voted for all sins, natural law, sodomy, fornication, masturbation, non-procreative (not even having the possibility of conception) sex acts, condoms, abortion, excessive speeding and being non-Christian.

The teaching that Catholics must do their best to make sure that civil laws are in conformity with the laws of nature is found in the Syllabus:

[quote][b]The Syllabus of Errors condemned by Bl. Pope Pius IX:[/b]
56. Moral laws do not stand in need of the divine sanction, and it is not at all necessary that human laws should be made conformable to the laws of nature and receive their power of binding from God. -- Allocution "Maxima quidem," June 9, 1862.
[url="http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm"]http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm[/url][/quote]

Sodomy, fornication, masturbation, sex acts which have no possibility of procreation, use of condoms, abortion and excessive speeding are all against the Decalogue and are therefore all against the natural law (The Decalogue is just the Natural Law restated)

[quote][b]The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Part III:[/b]
But, lest the people, aware of the abrogation of the Mosaic Law, may imagine that the precepts of the Decalogue are no longer obligatory, it should be taught that when God gave the Law to Moses, He did not so much establish a new code, as render more luminous that divine light* which the depraved morals and long-continued perversity of man had at that time almost obscured. It is most certain that we are not bound to obey the Commandments because they were delivered by Moses, but because they are implanted in the hearts of all, and have been explained and confirmed by Christ our Lord.
[url="http://catecheticsonline.com/Trent3.php"]http://catecheticsonline.com/Trent3.php[/url][/quote]

Being non-Christian should also be against the law as follows from the Syllabus.

[quote][b]The Syllabus of Errors condemned by Pope Bl. Pius IX:[/b]
77. In the present day it is no longer expedient that the Catholic religion should be held as the only religion of the State, to the exclusion of all other forms of worship. -- Allocution "Nemo vestrum," July 26, 1855.

78. Hence it has been wisely decided by law, in some Catholic countries, that persons coming to reside therein shall enjoy the public exercise of their own peculiar worship. -- Allocution "Acerbissimum," Sept. 27, 1852.

79. Moreover, it is false that the civil liberty of every form of worship, and the full power, given to all, of overtly and publicly manifesting any opinions whatsoever and thoughts, conduce more easily to corrupt the morals and minds of the people, and to propagate the pest of indifferentism. -- Allocution "Nunquam fore," Dec. 15, 1856.
[url="http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm"]http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm[/url][/quote]

[dairygirl4u2c]

why didn't you vote for slothful actions, or anything relating to the seven sins?

[Anomaly]

[quote]Being non-Christian should also be against the law as follows from the Syllabus.

QUOTE
The Syllabus of Errors condemned by Pope Bl. Pius IX:
77. In the present day it is no longer expedient that the Catholic religion should be held as the only religion of the State, to the exclusion of all other forms of worship. -- Allocution "Nemo vestrum," July 26, 1855.

78. Hence it has been wisely decided by law, in some Catholic countries, that persons coming to reside therein shall enjoy the public exercise of their own peculiar worship. -- Allocution "Acerbissimum," Sept. 27, 1852.

79. Moreover, it is false that the civil liberty of every form of worship, and the full power, given to all, of overtly and publicly manifesting any opinions whatsoever and thoughts, conduce more easily to corrupt the morals and minds of the people, and to propagate the pest of indifferentism. -- Allocution "Nunquam fore," Dec. 15, 1856. [/quote]How does that work with the current Catholic Catechism:
[quote]1738 Freedom is exercised in relationships between human beings. Every human person, created in the image of God, has the natural right to be recognized as a free and responsible being. All owe to each other this duty of respect. The right to the exercise of freedom, especially in moral and religious matters, is an inalienable requirement of the dignity of the human person. This right must be recognized and protected by civil authority within the limits of the common good and public order.32[/quote]

Has the Catholic Church just contradicted itself?

[Pontifite 7 of 10]

I voted for the ones that I knew what they meant, but know that I think about it I wish all sins were out-lawed.
The only thing you really couldn't do is banning non-christions. You can't force someone to think like you do.

[Resurrexi]

[quote]why didn't you vote for slothful actions, or anything relating to the seven sins?[/quote]I'll give you a quote from the Catechism rather than saying so myself...

[quote][b]The Catechism of St. Pius X, On Virtues and Vices, The Vices and Other Very Grievous Sins[/b]
1 Q. What is a vice?
A. A vice is an evil disposition of the mind to shirk good and do evil, arising from the frequent repetition of evil acts.

2 Q. What difference is there between a sin and a vice?
A. Between sin and vice there is this difference that sin is a passing act, whereas vice is a bad habit, contracted by continually falling into some sin.

3 Q. Which are the vices called capital?
A. The vices called capital are seven: Pride, Covetousness, Lust, Anger, Gluttony, Envy and Sloth.

4 Q. How are the capital vices conquered?
A. The capital vices are conquered by the exercise of the opposite virtues: Thus Pride is conquered by humility; Covetousness by liberality; Lust by chastity; Anger by patience; Gluttony by abstinence; Envy by brotherly love; Sloth by diligence and fervour in the service of God.

5 Q. Why are these vices called capital?
A. They are called capital because they are the head and fount of many other vices and sins.
[i]Source: The Catechism of Pope Saint Pius X, (Gladysdale, 1993), p. 173[/i][/quote]

[quote]I voted for the ones that I knew what they meant, but know that I think about it I wish all sins were out-lawed.
The only thing you really couldn't do is banning non-christions. You can't force someone to think like you do.[/quote]
...but you can forbid non-Catholics from publicly exercising their peculiar form of worship.

Edited March 30, 2007 by StThomasMore

[dairygirl4u2c]

yes st. tom. all these others who call them catholics are really just liberals masquerading as conservatives. otherwise, they'd be for banning non-christians and non-procreative sex acts and condoms etc..

either that, or catholics can't figure out what's required and what's open for interpretation to be banned.
probably the later, given that your quotes don't mention anything about the necessity of banning sins of every sort as you suggest.

[Lena]

How can you "ban sin"? If there is no sin, or evil, you won't have "good"..and we'd all be "perfect" but we aren't, and never will be as long as free will is involved. Anyway, I didn't know what to poll. It's pretty moot anyway---for example, how the heck can masturbation be banned? Oy, totalitarian society here we come.

[Totus Tuus]

I would really have to think about this one before I answer. It's good food for thought; I'm glad you brought it up, dairygirl.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1220151' date='Mar 26 2007, 10:46 PM']"Natural law" simply means the law which can be known through natural reason alone (as opposed to revealed religion).[/quote]

I was confused about what she meant by "natural law" as well. [i]Sins against[/i] natural law is what I was thinking she meant, but I wasn't sure.

[Proud2BCatholic139]

Why and how could we ban sin? We are not God and we will lose our inheritance to Heaven. One that would making us God, which we are not, and that is breaking the first commandment.

[Jesus_lol]

i really do hope that the last option was actually a joke.





excessive speeding is also already against the law. though really the states should raise the limit. 55 is just stupidly slow