By Their Fruits You Shall Recognize Them

[carrdero]

This is a common scriptural phrase to observe and recognize the people who are closely associated to the wil of God.

How are these fruits supposed to behave, act or respond?

How can we make the connection of what is required by God to the people who follow Him?

Is this a fair assessment?

With the many interpretation and translations of the Bible how can an organization measure among the many other different religions? How can we tell or judge who has good fruit?

What are we to do with all the trees that do not produce good fruit?

[hoosieranna]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1226875' date='Apr 2 2007, 12:39 AM']What are we to do with all the trees that do not produce good fruit?[/quote]

Put on extra fertilizer (literally and/or figuratively)?

[Guest T-Bone]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1226875' date='Apr 1 2007, 11:39 PM']What are we to do with all the trees that do not produce good fruit?[/quote]

Kill them!

Kill them all!

[Budge]

[b]Mat 7:15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?[/b]

Applying this to the Catholic church as well as other apostate Protestant ones...well this demands an action on behalf of a true Christian believer.

NOT TO FOLLOW WOLVES.

{I apply this to BAPTIST WOLVES as well like Rick Warren, Jerry Falwell, Ruckman and more}

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1227035' date='Apr 2 2007, 10:05 AM'][b]Mat 7:15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?[/b]

Applying this to the Catholic church as well as other apostate Protestant ones...well this demands an action on behalf of a true Christian believer.

NOT TO FOLLOW WOLVES.

{I apply this to BAPTIST WOLVES as well like Rick Warren, Jerry Falwell, Ruckman and more}[/quote]
Budge, you refuse to acknowledge the fruit in the Catholic Church. Jesus was not saying that whole churches would be good or bad, He was referring to individuals. Thus, He said that there would be weeds sown in among the wheat in His Church. You see the weeds and refuse to acknowledge the wheat, and because of the weeds, you consider all of Catholicism to bear bad fruit.

[Budge]

[quote]udge, you refuse to acknowledge the fruit in the Catholic Church.[/quote]

The Catholic Church does some good charity work...

but then so do the Mormons...

This to me does not cover up the fact of false teachings.

Remember I consider salvation an individual issue, I do believe God will be calling more Catholic people out. Remember Revelation 17 speaks of HIS PEOPLE. {I believe God is calling others out of false daughter churches as well}

perhaps my calling out was just earlier then most.

[Guest T-Bone]

[quote name='Budge' post='1227073' date='Apr 2 2007, 09:34 AM']The Catholic Church does some good charity work...

but then so do the Mormons...

This to me does not cover up the fact of false teachings.

Remember I consider salvation an individual issue, I do believe God will be calling more Catholic people out. Remember Revelation 17 speaks of HIS PEOPLE. {I believe God is calling others out of false daughter churches as well}

perhaps my calling out was just earlier then most.[/quote]

Is it God calling them out, or Satan?

[Budge]

God.

[b]Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.[/b]

[Guest T-Bone]

[quote name='Budge' post='1227096' date='Apr 2 2007, 10:00 AM']God.

[b]Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.[/b][/quote]

Satan still gets my vote. He misuses scripture too.

[Budge]

what do YOU think that verse means then.

or is your choice just to IGNORE it?

[Guest T-Bone]

My apologies. I forgot that you equate God's Church with Babylon, through misuse of scripture.

[hoosieranna]

Fertilize the carp out of them. With carp, if needed.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1227136' date='Apr 2 2007, 11:32 AM']what do YOU think that verse means then.

or is your choice just to IGNORE it?[/quote]
You ignore all the Scripture we post.

Anyway, the fact of the matter is that the Catholic Church does far more than "good social work." The Catholic Church has more people that died for the Name of Jesus than all other religious groups combined.

Sorry, but the martyrs tell us what the faith is...they died for it...if we don't listen to them, we believe in vain.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1227306' date='Apr 2 2007, 04:52 PM']You ignore all the Scripture we post.

Anyway, the fact of the matter is that the Catholic Church does far more than "good social work." The Catholic Church has more people that died for the Name of Jesus than all other religious groups combined.

Sorry, but the martyrs tell us what the faith is...they died for it...if we don't listen to them, we believe in vain.[/quote]

Amen. Nothing speaks louder than the blood of Martyrs... oh and don't even bother to refer to the infidels killed in scripture... I'm watching you *does the pointing thing with two fingers moving from eyes to Budge*

[carrdero]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1227057' date='Apr 2 2007, 11:21 AM']Budge, you refuse to acknowledge the fruit in the Catholic Church. Jesus was not saying that whole churches would be good or bad, He was referring to individuals. Thus, He said that there would be weeds sown in among the wheat in His Church. You see the weeds and refuse to acknowledge the wheat, and because of the weeds, you consider all of Catholicism to bear bad fruit.[/quote]
Raphael are you referring that we our own trees and that we have to mind our own fruit or are you talking about the tree being the church and that the fruit are the members?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1228085' date='Apr 3 2007, 12:24 AM']Raphael are you referring that we our own trees and that we have to mind our own fruit or are you talking about the tree being the church and that the fruit are the members?[/quote]
Neither, I'm saying that Budge tries to take "bad fruit" from any individual member of the Church as a sign that the whole Church is bad. Bad fruit from any individual member only shows that the individual member is sinful, not the whole Church. Further, fitting it in with the parable of the wheat and the weeds, the bad fruit of an individual member only proves that that individual is a weed instead of wheat, but since both exist in the Church, and Jesus said so, then it is completely unbiblical to say that any Church is bad if it has people in it who bear bad fruit. Jesus told us that the true Church would have such people. Budge likes to focus on such people...priests who don't follow Church teaching...celebrities who claim to be Catholic, but practice otherwise...politicians who are anti-life...and she tries to pass off that bad fruit as a sign that the Catholic Church is bad. It's not biblical. It's contrary to Scripture. It's also illogical.

Budge should come up to my university, where it is clear that the Holy Spirit is moving. Why don't you come up here, Budge? We had a slum in the middle of campus where two students were murdered a decade and a half ago...and a priest asked the Holy Spirit to come and bless the campus and he took the student body with him into the slums to evangelize...they knocked on doors, spread the Gospel, and prayed with these people. It worked. The violence stopped. I think that's pretty good fruit, don't you? What about our Rugby team, which is more concerned with spreading the Gospel on the field than with winning the game? What about our households (Catholic fraternities and sororities), which meet to pray several times a week? No, you refuse to look at the good. You refuse to see the good fruit. You refuse to acknowledge all the good people on this website who have had Christlike patience with you as you've tried to crucify them again and again.

Budge is not interested in spreading the Gospel...her intention may be to do so, I can't judge that, but it's clear that she is not. She comes her to attack what she doesn't even know, and she doesn't even practice the rules of engagement for debate. Budge doesn't want to see the good fruit because the good fruit is Catholic.

God bless,

Micah

[Budge]

N[quote]either, I'm saying that Budge tries to take "bad fruit" from any individual member of the Church as a sign that the whole Church is bad. Bad fruit from any individual member only shows that the individual member is sinful, not the whole Church. Further, fitting it in with the parable of the wheat and the weeds, the bad fruit of an individual member only proves that that individual is a weed instead of wheat, but since both exist in the Church, and Jesus said so, then it is completely unbiblical to say that any Church is bad if it has people in it who bear bad fruit. Jesus told us that the true Church would have such people. Budge likes to focus on such people...priests who don't follow Church teaching...celebrities who claim to be Catholic, but practice otherwise...politicians who are anti-life...and she tries to pass off that bad fruit as a sign that the Catholic Church is bad. It's not biblical. It's contrary to Scripture. It's also illogical.[/quote]

To be honest with you, I see the insitutiton as corrupt and bad, most of the individuals I have posted on as being corrupt if you had noticed, ARE ALL CLERGY and the LEADERSHIP OF YOUR CHURCH leading people astray. I see Catholics as VICTIMS of a false religious system, not the instigators.

Jesus warned of wolves in sheep's clothing and I see Catholics on this very thread, giving out the idea even if indirectly you have to accept all the "weeds" wolves, because supposely they are "few" In the Catholic leadership the good oens are the EXCEPTION, we post about them on my board, under posts called PROFILES IN PRIESTLY COURAGE, they usually are the ones who are whistleblowing getting drop kicked by the bishops, for actually having a conscience.

I consider most of the priests VICTIMS as well by the way, under corrupt false authorities, sure there are good guys in the trenches, who do good charity work, who change their communities for the better but they too are being taught wrong theology and led by these corrupt authorities who teach them false theology. There are great priests who if they held the gospel instead of bondage to Rome's false sacramental system. could do good work for God.

The sad thing about Catholics, is they cant realize when someone is trying to help them to know the gospel and face the false teachings in Catholicism they think the Christian is "insulting" them when it is far from the truth. I was once a Catholic, I even admit here, I was even in a WORSE place called the UU. But this is to be expected time and time again, Christians are warned that many would take offense to the gospel, that those who serve a watchman role do anything but win popularity contests.

Edited April 3, 2007 by Budge

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1228308' date='Apr 3 2007, 09:20 AM']To be honest with you, I see the insitutiton as corrupt and bad, most of the individuals I have posted on as being corrupt if you had noticed, ARE ALL CLERGY and the LEADERSHIP OF YOUR CHURCH leading people astray. I see Catholics as VICTIMS of a false religious system, not the instigators.[/quote]

What am I, Budge, for being a faithful Catholic who knows what the Church believes and can prove it to such an extent that you have to drop out of debate with me? Am I a victim or an instigator.

The problem, Budge, is that you have convinced yourself of an illusion. You are so filled with bitterness and hatred at what you should reject (universalism, etc.) that you throw away everything that (to you) seems similar. You refuse to listen to what the Church actually teaches because you say the Church isn't trustworthy. Well, if the Church isn't even trustworthy enough that you can believe what the Church says it teaches, then that leaves you with no idea of what the Church teaches, and therefore no grounds to say that the Church teaches falsely.

[quote]Jesus warned of wolves in sheep's clothing and I see Catholics on this very thread, giving out the idea even if indirectly you have to accept all the "weeds" wolves, because supposely they are "few" In the Catholic leadership the good oens are the EXCEPTION, we post about them on my board, under posts called PROFILES IN PRIESTLY COURAGE, they usually are the ones who are whistleblowing getting drop kicked by the bishops, for actually having a conscience. [/quote]Budge, you don't understand the Catholic faith. You've refused to look at it honestly and therefore you see anyone who rejects it as a hero. Don't think that you're honoring those who reject the Church. You're honoring those who reject Jesus Christ, but you refuse to acknowledge that Jesus lives in His Church.

You can throw out "wolves in sheep's clothing" all you want. That doesn't make it true. You've convinced yourself falsely that all things Catholic are evil. You've been dishonest about it. You've deceived others by stating falsehoods against us. Why won't you acknowledge what is quite clear, that you know nothing about our faith?

[quote]I consider most of the priests VICTIMS as well by the way, under corrupt false authorities, sure there are good guys in the trenches, who do good charity work, who change their communities for the better but they too are being taught wrong theology and led by these corrupt authorities who teach them false theology. There are great priests who if they held the gospel instead of bondage to Rome's false sacramental system. could do even more work for God.[/quote]

Again, accusations without proof.

[quote]The sad thing about Catholics, is they cant realize when someone is trying to help them to know the gospel and face the false teachings in Catholicism they think the Christian is "insulting" them when it is far from the truth. I was once a Catholic, I even admit here, I was even in a WORSE place called the UU. But this is to be expected time and time again, Christians are warned that many would take offense to the gospel, that those who serve a watchman role do anything but win popularity contests.[/quote]

Budge, if you want us to think that you're trying to show us the Gospel, then actually understanding what we believe in the first place would be the first step. You can't lead us astray, Budge. We're actually catechized. That's why when you come here to try to convert us, we can just roll our eyes, because you aren't even speaking to us...you're speaking to some made-up Catholic who exists only in your head. How can you expect to convert us when you don't even know what you're talking about?

[Budge]

[quote]
What am I, Budge, for being a faithful Catholic who knows what the Church believes and can prove it to such an extent that you have to drop out of debate with me? Am I a victim or an instigator.
[/quote]Actually youre in the place of simply wanting to close your ears and eyes. This is noting new to me. You approach these discussions with your mind made up ahead of time, that you will not examine any of your churches own teachings, and will "Fight" the bad fundie who is here to try and "take your faith" away.

youre reaction here is nothing new to me/
[quote]

The problem, Budge, is that you have convinced yourself of an illusion. You are so filled with bitterness and hatred at what you should reject (universalism, etc.) that you throw away everything that (to you) seems similar.[/quote]

Ive been posting on the universalism in the Catholic Church for years, and I have found the answers and exucses for it to be nothing but LACKING. The fact of the matter is 13 years of an "education" in unitarian universalism is like no other, especially when that person moves on to be a Christian. I cant be fooled by covert New Ageism that is happening in other churches either.

You definitely are, telling me over and over like others to IGNORE whats right in front of my face.
[quote]
You refuse to listen to what the Church actually teaches because you say the Church isn't trustworthy. Well, if the Church isn't even trustworthy enough that you can believe what the Church says it teaches, then that leaves you with no idea of what the Church teaches, and therefore no grounds to say that the Church teaches falsely.[/quote]??? What is that mess. If youre trying to confuse people on purpose the above could do no better. To even fulfill what you want as I said elsewhere someone would have TO AGREE with you.

Your church and its leadership are NOT trustworthy. I do not put total trust in men even in the men of my own churches but in God and His Word.

[quote]You can throw out "wolves in sheep's clothing" all you want. That doesn't make it true.[/quote]

Jesus said it NOT me.

So WHY IS THAT WARNING IN THE BIBLE, and WHY DO YOU REJECT IT?
[quote]
You've convinced yourself falsely that all things Catholic are evil.[/quote]A lie on your part, I have stated time and timea gain Catholics are victims of a false religious system not evil themelves.
[quote]
Budge, if you want us to think that you're trying to show us the Gospel, then actually understanding what we believe in the first place would be the first step.[/quote]

Strawman, unless I agreed with Catholic theology or changed into an ecumenical protestant, you will keep repeating the above.

[quote]We're actually catechized. [/quote]And honestly that is too bad.

You do know what the word CATECHISM means dont you?
[quote]

cat·e·chism (kăt'ĭ-kĭz'əm) pronunciation
n.

1. A book giving a brief summary of the basic principles of Christianity in question-and-answer form.
2. A manual giving basic instruction in a subject, [b]usually by rote or repetition.[/b]
3. A body of fundamental principles or beliefs,[b] especially when accepted uncritically:[/b] “the core of the catechism of the antinuclear left, the notion that the threat to peace is technological, not political” (George F. Will).
4. A close questioning or examination, as of a political figure.

[French catechisme, from Old French, from Late Latin catēchismus, from Late Greek katēkhismos, from katēkhizein, to teach by word of mouth. See catechize.][/quote]

The sad thing you think I am your enemy, I am not.
[b]
Gal 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?[/b]

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Budge' post='1228325' date='Apr 3 2007, 12:15 PM']Actually youre in the place of simply wanting to close your ears and eyes. This is noting new to me. You approach these discussions with your mind made up ahead of time, that you will not examine any of your churches own teachings, and will "Fight" the bad fundie who is here to try and "take your faith" away.

youre reaction here is nothing new to me/


Ive been posting on the universalism in the Catholic Church for years, and I have found the answers and exucses for it to be nothing but LACKING. The fact of the matter is 13 years of an "education" in unitarian universalism is like no other, especially when that person moves on to be a Christian. I cant be fooled by covert New Ageism that is happening in other churches either.

You definitely are, telling me over and over like others to IGNORE whats right in front of my face.
??? What is that mess. If youre trying to confuse people on purpose the above could do no better. To even fulfill what you want as I said elsewhere someone would have TO AGREE with you.

Your church and its leadership are NOT trustworthy. I do not put total trust in men even in the men of my own churches but in God and His Word.
Jesus said it NOT me.

So WHY IS THAT WARNING IN THE BIBLE, and WHY DO YOU REJECT IT?
A lie on your part, I have stated time and timea gain Catholics are victims of a false religious system not evil themelves.
Strawman, unless I agreed with Catholic theology or changed into an ecumenical protestant, you will keep repeating the above.

And honestly that is too bad.

You do know what the word CATECHISM means dont you?
The sad thing you think I am your enemy, I am not.
[b]
Gal 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?[/b][/quote]LOL
You are my enemy because you DON'T tell the truth.
By your own admission, you tell us that you have been fooled more than once. You've just traded one mistake for another. Just because you believe it doesn't mean it isn't a lie.
You have no consistent theological understanding, nor do you even attempt reasonable thought processes. Anything can be misconstrued to fit a pre-conceived notion.