LivinTabernacle Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 (edited) Okay, lets say you're rolling along the road at 50 and the speed limit is 45, so technically you are breaking the law by going faster than the limit. But doesn't the Church say to obey all lawful, earthly authority that doesn't interfere with God?Hmmmm. Edited July 31, 2003 by LivinTabernacle
Donna Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 yes. however... 1. we don't have automated cruise control to keep our vehicles at an exact speed; 2. we rely instead on our feet to control gas output - w/ variations in terrain [ eg, hills]; traffic lights, etc; or even our moods, tension on the road, many variables to hinder an exact speed 3. the real danger of not keeping up w/ the flow of traffic, either because of accident danger or being shot by someone... these are all legit reasons why' breaking' the speed limit is not sinful. this is my own opinion.
dUSt Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 Well, if you're late for mass, then speeding would be for the greater moral good, so in that case, it wouldn't be a sin. hahaha But for just casual speeding... technically, yes, I suppose it would be a sin. I would say the gravity of that sin is very low on the scale. Nothing I would bother mentioning in confession anyway--unless the severity of your wreckless driving is putting people's lives in danger, you acknowledge this, and continue anyway. In that case, it would be a more serious sin, I think.
Norseman82 Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 Well, being a member of a Christian sportbike (i.e., crotch rocket) group, this is one of the questions that naturally comes up in our forums from time to time . The best attitude I've heard is this: "Let he who has no sin cast the first stone". Notice that I'm not picking up any rocks!!!
cmotherofpirl Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 Welcome to phatmass. There is a check in thread where you can introduce yourself. Enjoy.
Winchester Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 Speeding can certainly be sinful, but not speeding can be deadly. It's a public safety law. When it's safer to speed, speed. When it's not, don't. All traffic laws can be safely broken in certain circumstances. Running red lights, rolling stops, illegal turns, etcetera.
IXpenguin21 Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 i forget from where, but i have heard from a member of the church (like a bishop), that if you accidentaly hit someone with your car and you're doing the speed limit, you are not at fault for killing them. though, if through your love of speed, you hit someone while exceeding the speed limit and kill them, you have a mortal sin on your hands. i agree with this view. it's like playing with fire. if traffic is moving 5-15 mph over the speed limit, then i think it's safer to stay with them, but if it's just you on a side street and you're doing 50 in a 30... your soul, and other's lives are hanging in the balance of how fast you think you should be alowed to go. ...and i'm not throwing any stones either. ;)
Winchester Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 Merely breaking a law and it resulting in death or injury does not a mortal sin make. Of all the unsafe driving acts, speeding gets the most play, but in my experience, tailgating causes more accidents than speeding. Running stop signs and red lights is also significant.
cmotherofpirl Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 When we drove from Pgh to Houston for Thanksgiving the average speed on the interstates (other than traffic jams) was about 85 miles per hour. We were not in the fast lane either. THe only place we went slower was WV because it is all moderate curves, few lights, and mountains. If we had gone the speed limit we would have been run over.
The Shover Robot Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 So I guess technically all those unpaid parking tickets a person accumulates over the course of their life end up as time in purgation. They should add a tag line on tickets: "Failure to pay this ticket may endanger your mortal soul or add time to your lengthening purgation."
littleflower+JMJ Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 footnote on the ticket (in very small font): sinners will be punished... you have to be careful shover, all those parking tickets might come back and haunt ya! :ph34r:
LivinTabernacle Posted July 31, 2003 Author Posted July 31, 2003 'preesh. But i think you guys are missing something. True. it's not going to be a mortal sin(3 things ahve to be present for that, grave in nature, full consent and knowledge that it is wrong) but what i'm saying is, is it a sin?As much as i hate to say it, i think it is a sin. What makes it worse is that some of us here do think it is a sin, but deny the fact that it is a sin worth confessing. Now it gets really interesting. Think about, if it's a sin, it's a sin. No matter how small a matter it is, it's still something that is keeping us from getting closer to the grace of God. And not to call out the guy that did this, but to say that if you commit a sin but it's "too small to bring to confession" would not confessing a sin for a long period of time while continuing to commit that sin, make it more and more grave by the simple fact that not only are you sinning, which every human does, but also you're continuing to commit that same act over and over again, making it more and more grave? I'm definitely not standing on a soapbow on this issue, i'm just wondering what everyone thinks about it, and maybe get some guidance on this. I bring this all up after a conversation with my priest whom, to put it midly, is very conservative. Anywho, thoughts, suggestions...(sorry for any typos, just woke up and no contacts in, good combo )
cmotherofpirl Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 If you are deliberately speeding, you know its wrong, and somebody could be injured or die as a result of your speeding, and there are no extenuating circumstances, yes it is a sin. But if you are rushing to the hospital all bets are off.
LivinTabernacle Posted July 31, 2003 Author Posted July 31, 2003 what i'm talking about is going with the flow of traffic, 5 over the limit. And what you're saying is that the ends justify the means. What if going full blast to that hospital you hit someone from behind, causing that person to be paralyzed for the rest of their life, all because you wanted a baby to be born in a hospital instead of in a car, which happens all the time and in this case probably will happen again. Bad example i'm sure, but still, justifying the the fact that you're sinning for some other good when you can still avoid sinning, just doesn't really seem to fly with me.
cmotherofpirl Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 No. THe probabilities of death associated with preemies, pre-eclampsia, breech delivery, blue babies etc are known. So are the probabilities of car accidents. THe definite saving of two lives is more important than the statistical possibilities of an accident happening at that particular moment. Particularly if you have your lights flashing and you are laying on the horn. You are practically insuring yourself of a police escort. What if you are rushing a person to a hospital with a heart attack, a limb amputation etc? Are you gonna stay within the speed limit or go faster to save a life?
LivinTabernacle Posted July 31, 2003 Author Posted July 31, 2003 Any trained professional rescuer and in fact anyone with some formal First Aid training are taught Check Call Care. Check teh scence and the victim for safety and a real emergency. Call for help and then Care for the victim. I'm saying, 911 with a fire engine truck showing up in less than 10 minutes is alot better than me trying to fight traffic in a saturn.
cmotherofpirl Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 I have been in accidents, I have first aid training and I have been in labor in a traffic jam. It depends on the injury the distance to the hospital and if you can stop the bleeding. You don't always have 10 minutes. Where I live, I am 2 minutes from a hospital and 5 minutes from lifeflight. But I have been places where those things are not available. If you can be stabilized - great. There are times when you cannot wait for an ambulance or firetruck. Sometimes you get in the car and go.
Winchester Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 cmom, Excellent response. Living, Response time depends on many things, and most callers don't wait for an actual emergency to call 911, so you're likely to wait a while, especially with two minutes plus for 911 to transfer a call to a fire department, plus dispatch time, travel time, etcetera. I would do my best to insure a child not be born in a car, or to people inexperienced. The chances of things going good enough are in your favour, even without experience, but it's a lot better to be in a hospital. Training, especially civilian training, it nothing compared to the real thing. One can safely speed. Mere speeding does not cause one to rear end another car. Wrongly evaluating the safe amount to speed is the problem. Failing to drop speed when closing on a vehicle is a problem, not looking far enough ahead for your speed is a problem. I speed professionally, and it's not the lights and sirens that make it safe, because at about 55mph, you can only hear them about 15 feet out, and people don't check the mirrors enough to get out of the way because of lights. The typical rules for lights and sirens: up to 10 mph above speed limit.
LivinTabernacle Posted August 1, 2003 Author Posted August 1, 2003 i think we're getting sidetracked here. I mean, we can debate back and forth about who has the most training or worst expeirence or whatever, but we're still missing the issue. Is speeding a sin, and if so, shouldn't it be confessed?And if not confessed, does it become a mortal sin?Or is it just a venial sin wiped away everytime we pray?
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