Gershom Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Christianity and anti-semitism are incompatible. It is heresy to hold the descendants of 1st century jews accountable for the death of the Christ. Does anyone care to debate this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gershom Posted April 9, 2007 Author Share Posted April 9, 2007 One could go a step further and say that anti-semitism originated as a Christian heresy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 [quote]The historical complexity of Jesus' trial is apparent in the Gospel accounts. The personal sin of the participants (Judas, the Sanhedrin, Pilate) is known to God alone. Hence we cannot lay responsibility for the trial on the Jews in Jerusalem as a whole, despite the outcry of a manipulated crowd and the global reproaches contained in the apostles' calls to conversion after Pentecost. Jesus himself, in forgiving them on the cross, and Peter in following suit, both accept "the ignorance" of the Jews of Jerusalem and even of their leaders. Still less can we extend responsibility to other Jews of different times and places, based merely on the crowd's cry: "His blood be on us and on our children!" a formula for ratifying a judicial sentence. As the Church declared at the Second Vatican Council: [b]...[N]either all Jews indiscriminately at that time, nor Jews today, can be charged with the crimes committed during his Passion...[T]he Jews should not be spoken of as rejected or accursed as if this followed from holy Scripture.[/b] In her Magisterial teaching of the faith and in the witness of her saints, the Church has never forgotten that "sinners were the authors and the ministers of all the sufferings that the divine Redeemer endured." Taking into account the fact that our sins affect Christ himself, the Church does not hesitate to impute to Christians the gravest responsibility for the torments inflicted upon Jesus, a responsibility with which they have all too often burdened the Jews alone: [b]We must regard as guilty all those who continue to relapse into their sins. Since our sins made the Lord Christ suffer the torment of the cross, those who plunge themselves into disorders and crimes crucify the Son of God anew in their hearts (for he is in them) and hold him up to contempt. And it can be seen that our crime in this case is greater in us than in the Jews. As for them, according to the witness of the Apostle, "None of the rulers of this age understood this; for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory." We, however, profess to know him. And when we deny him by our deeds, we in some way seem to lay violent hands on him. Nor did demons crucify him; it is you who have crucified him and crucify him still, when you delight in your vices and sins.[/b] --Catechism of the Catholic Church, 597-598[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gershom Posted April 9, 2007 Author Share Posted April 9, 2007 Christians invented anti-semitism. Debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Christians did not invent anti-Semitism. The Jews were hated long before the coming of Christ, because they were God's chosen people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gershom Posted April 9, 2007 Author Share Posted April 9, 2007 Please give a specific historical incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Do you have a purpose with this thread? Can you please explain why you started this thread, so that it doesn't just taper off into a random thread. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 The Romans were very anti-semitic. Look it up. I'm not going to do your research for you, but it's an accepted historical fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateo el Feo Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 (edited) The Egyptians in the Book of Exodus were pretty anti-semitic. Edited April 9, 2007 by Mateo el Feo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 [quote][b]Douay-Rheims, John 5:23:[/b] 23 That all men may honour the Son, as they honour the Father. He who honoureth not the Son, honoureth not the Father, who hath sent him. [url="http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=5&l=23&f=s#x"]http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk...;l=23&f=s#x[/url][/quote] [quote][b]Douay-Rheims, 1 John 2:22-23[/b] 22 Who is a liar, but he who denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is Antichrist, who denieth the Father, and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father. He that confesseth the Son, hath the Father also. [url="http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=69&ch=2&l=22&f=s#x"]http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk...;l=22&f=s#x[/url][/quote] [quote][b]Douay Rheims, Matthew 27:24-25[/b] 24 And Pilate seeing that he prevailed nothing, but that rather a tumult was made; taking water washed his hands before the people, saying: I am innocent of the blood of this just man; look you to it. 25 And the whole people answering, said: His blood be upon us and our children. [url="http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=27&l=25&f=s#x"]http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk...;l=25&f=s#x[/url][/quote] [quote][b]Haydock's Catholic Bible Commentary, 1859 edition; Matthew 27:25[/b] Ver. 25. All the people answered: his blood be upon us, and upon our children which continues, saith St. Jerome, to this day. Then Pilate delivered to them Jesus to be crucified. (Witham) --- This blasphemous prayer continues to this day, and will continue a protracted curse upon the Jews, and upon their posterity. (Origen) --- Behold the insanity of the Jews! Their passion and pertinacious obstinacy will not suffer them to see and understand: they draw down curses upon themselves in these terrible imprecations: his blood be upon us and upon our children. Still the God of all mercies did not literally comply with their impious prayer. For, of these children he selected some for himself; amongst the rest even Paul, and many thousands who were converted at Jerusalem. (St. Chrysostom) [url="http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id45.html"]http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id45.html[/url][/quote] [quote][b]The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Part I, Article IV:[/b] Besides, to increase the dignity of this mystery, Christ not only suffered for sinners, but even for those who were the very authors and ministers of all the torments He endured. Of this the Apostle reminds us in these words addressed to the Hebrews: Think diligently upon him that endured such opposition from sinners against himself; that you be not wearied, fainting in you minds.25 In this guilt are involved all those who fall frequently into sin; for, as our sins consigned Christ the Lord to the death of the cross, most certainly those who wallow in sin and iniquity crucify to themselves again the Son of God, as far as in them lies, and make a mockery of Him.26 This guilt seems more enormous us than in the Jews, since according to the testimony of the same Apostle: If they had known it, they would never have crucified the Lord of glory;27 while we, on the contrary, profess to know Him, yet denying Him by our actions, seem in some to lay violent hands on him. [url="http://catecheticsonline.com/Trent.php"]http://catecheticsonline.com/Trent.php[/url][/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 The whole world is guilty of His blood. The role of the Jews in it does not mean that they are more responsible than any of the rest of us. Thank you, STM, for showing us that though the Jews also sinned against Christ, we are worse for doing so knowingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 When persons try to blame the jews for the death of Christ I recall His own words... Therefore doth the Father love me: because I lay down my life, that I may take it again. No man taketh it away from me: but [b]I lay it down of myself, and I have power to lay it down: and I have power to take it up again.[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud2BCatholic139 Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 [quote name='Gershom' post='1236498' date='Apr 9 2007, 05:25 PM']Christianity and anti-semitism are incompatible. It is heresy to hold the descendants of 1st century jews accountable for the death of the Christ. Does anyone care to debate this?[/quote] It comes down to as simply as this...even though it wasn't directly written, Jesus said, "I lay my life down freely." That right there is the bullet that the Jews did not kill Jesus. Our sins crucified Jesus. He was just fulfilling God's plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 [quote name='Proud2BCatholic139' post='1237093' date='Apr 9 2007, 09:05 PM']It comes down to as simply as this...even though it wasn't directly written, Jesus said, "I lay my life down freely." That right there is the bullet that the Jews did not kill Jesus. Our sins crucified Jesus. He was just fulfilling God's plan.[/quote] If you didn't stop someone from killing you, and yet they still killed you, would they not still be killing you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud2BCatholic139 Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 (edited) Jesus knew He was going to die. It was reitterated in the Old Testament and in the Gospels. He knew step by step on how His death was going to be, it was no surprise. If he were to stop from this happening, where would the Church be today? Even though he had the power to stop it, He was just fulfilling the scriptures. Edited April 10, 2007 by Proud2BCatholic139 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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