Dave Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I asked this in Q&A, but it seems to have been forgotten about. Anyway, this is a semi-hypothetical situation in that I've heard of cases where this has happened, but it's not like they're people I knew personally. Suppose 2 people, at least one of whom is Catholic, marry each other outside the Church and start a family (let's suppose neither has been previously married). Well, suppose the Catholic party eventually starts having an affair and eventually leaves his/her current "spouse" for the "guy/chick on the side." And since the previous marriage wasn't in the Church and thus invalid all along, the person is able to marry his/her new lover in the Church. Of course, the previous marriage was invalid, and so the Catholic party's affair with and subsequent marriage to the new person wouldn't really be adultery in the eyes of the Church. But considering that the Catholic party could have instead stayed with their first "spouse" and children and taken steps to have that marriage validated, thus keeping their family together, then wouldn't the Catholic party be guilty of, at the very least, a sin against charity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 11, 2007 Author Share Posted April 11, 2007 (edited) Man ... surely [b]someone[/b] here knows the answer! Edited April 11, 2007 by Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 what about fornication? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 11, 2007 Author Share Posted April 11, 2007 Well the individual in question was already committing fornication with the first "spouse," but he/she could've had that marriage blessed in the Church and worked on any problems in that particular relationship instead of going out, having an affair, and helping break up the family he helped start. And note that in regard to the 2nd person who eventually becomes a true spouse via a Church marriage, I didn't say whether or not there was any sexual activity involved prior to the wedding. If there was, then yes, it would be fornication and not adultery, but even so, that's beside the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totus Tuus Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 (edited) I don't think it would be adultery. I think the partner who was "cheating' on his illegitimate spouse would be committing fornication [i]again[/i]. In God's eyes, he/she was not bound to the first partner; they were both committing fornication. His/her going off with someone else is just fornication again. Edited April 11, 2007 by Totus Tuus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Can I ask a question about marriage in general? It is my understanding that civil marriages are not recognized. Is that right? It just doesn't seem like that should be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Even if they were both not Catholics, the Church still considers their marriage valid (while not sacramental) so yes adultery. If someone decided to join the Church and had a civil marriage and divorce, and wanted to remarry, the Church would require an anullment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 [quote name='hot stuff' post='1238306' date='Apr 10 2007, 10:24 PM']Even if they were both not Catholics, the Church still considers their marriage valid (while not sacramental) so yes adultery[/quote] OK. So if, say, a person was baptized Catholic but never confirmed, and married a baptized Protestant in a civil ceremony, not in a church, their marriage is valid? Would it just need to be blessed if they were to become Catholic? They're not fornicating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 11, 2007 Author Share Posted April 11, 2007 [quote name='Totus Tuus' post='1238237' date='Apr 10 2007, 11:51 PM']I don't think it would be adultery. I think the partner who was "cheating' on his illegitimate spouse would be committing fornication [i]again[/i]. In God's eyes, he/she was not bound to the first partner; they were both committing fornication. His/her going off with someone else is just fornication again.[/quote] You missed the part where I said the partner who was "cheating" and the 2nd spouse are married in the Church. So of course, that wouldn't be adultery OR fornication. If they had sex prior to the Church marriage, then yes it would be fornication and not adultery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 [quote name='Dave' post='1238336' date='Apr 10 2007, 09:37 PM']You missed the part where I said the partner who was "cheating" and the 2nd spouse are married in the Church. So of course, that wouldn't be adultery OR fornication. If they had sex prior to the Church marriage, then yes it would be fornication and not adultery.[/quote] Look folks There are two things that are being convoluted. A marriage to be fully recognized in the Church has to be sacramental. So if a couple gets married outside of the Church and are Catholic, the priest would say they can't receive communion. However the Church recognizes the civil portion of the marriage. So its not like it doesn't exist. The same thing is true if a couple were civilly married and wanted to join the Church. They would have to have the marriage blessed. So in the hypothetical yes to adultery. One of the Fathers can correct me if I'm off on this. But I would be surprised if my understanding is off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Thank you for the clarification quite helpful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Gone Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 [quote name='hot stuff' post='1238306' date='Apr 10 2007, 11:24 PM']Even if they were both not Catholics, the Church still considers their marriage valid (while not sacramental)[/quote] Glad you said that... I read somewhere, (or maybe it was my own twisted think-exercise) that a protestant couple can still have a sacramental marriage in the aspect that they bestow grace onto each other in a possible way that catholic couples do also. Not always, but there is a possibilitiy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theologian in Training Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 (edited) [quote name='hot stuff' post='1238370' date='Apr 11 2007, 12:49 AM']Look folks There are two things that are being convoluted. A marriage to be fully recognized in the Church has to be sacramental. So if a couple gets married outside of the Church and are Catholic, the priest would say they can't receive communion. However the Church recognizes the civil portion of the marriage. So its not like it doesn't exist. The same thing is true if a couple were civilly married and wanted to join the Church. They would have to have the marriage blessed. So in the hypothetical yes to adultery. One of the Fathers can correct me if I'm off on this. But I would be surprised if my understanding is off.[/quote] Yes, you are right. Otherwise, the Church would not have something called "Convalidation," that is, making an invalid marriage valid. This is usually the case when one or both of the parties are not free to marry in the Catholic Church and have a civil ceremony of some kind. Once everything is straightened out, however (annulment) then since they are free to marry (whomever got the annulment) their marriage can then be recognized by the Catholic Church. Whether it was one or both of the Catholics who were married outside the Church the Church does still require a nullification of some kind. For example, I had a situation where a Catholic woman married a Catholic man by a judge. They got a divorce but she wanted to be married in the Catholic Church. In that case, since, from a canonical standpoint, there is something called a lack of form (a term used to designate the "qualifications for a marriage to be valid) she needed to obtain something called a decree of nullity, because the marriage was not valid in the eyes of the Church, but a marriage did exist. Once that comes back, and is reviewed by the Tribunal (Church court) if it is granted, she is then free to marry in the Catholic Church, if not, well, then, I am unable to do the wedding....just an aside, it was nullified Incidentally, this is why there is so much confusion with regard to annulment and divorce (two incredibly separate things, that appear to be the same)... Hope that clears it up a bit.. EDIT: I came across where there is talked about in Canon Law [url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P40.HTM"]http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P40.HTM[/url] check it out... God Bless Fr. Brian Edited April 11, 2007 by Theologian in Training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totus Tuus Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 (edited) Hmmm... I have always heard that a civil marriage was not recognized by the Church, only a Christian marriage (marriages witnessed by Protestant ministers included). This is all rather confusing to me [quote]You missed the part where I said the partner who was "cheating" and the 2nd spouse are married in the Church[/quote]You're right! Sorry! [quote] Incidentally, this is why there is so much confusion with regard to annulment and divorce (two incredibly separate things, that appear to be the same)...[/quote] Thanks for taking the time to explain all of this, Father! Edited April 11, 2007 by Totus Tuus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 So if a non-practicing "catholic" [baptised but had never attended church or been raised catholic, in fact was raised anti-catholic] marries a non-practicing protestant in a civil ceremony, they are civilly married but not sacramentally married?? If they get divorced and the protestant wants to marry a diffeernt catholic, does he have to get an annullment from the first marriage? The marriage laws are very confusing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now