Weird Email From Pseudo Non Christian Trying To Break My Mom Down

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1240950' date='Apr 12 2007, 11:49 PM']From what I just read, I got the distinct impression that this person is not agnostic. I would delve deeper than that, because I think he could be a very decietful Satanist.

Call him out on it.

If he starts denying, and says, you Christians are all the same, calling whoever doesn't agree with you a Satanist, than you've got him in a lie.

He is either a Satanist, or he is possessed by Satanic Spirits who don't want to let him go.[/quote]
I'm sorry, but this sounds like a horrible witchhunt. When faced with being called a satanist, this guy can either confess to being a satanist OR he can say, "Nope, I'm not a satanist" which "proves" that he is in fact one???

[Starets]

Well, for one thing, the idea that "God is just wish fulfillment and therefore there is no God" is a logical fallacy. I wish I had a dish of ice cream beside me. According to that logic, then ice cream does not exist. It is just wish fulfillment.

[N/A Gone]

Who moved this to open mic?

It is theology, a debate and an apologetics thread. Either the Trans lane or the Debate table.

WHy would this be on Open mic?

[N/A Gone]

Winchester, I found a poll, but there was no article.

[N/A Gone]

Outside of the satanic witch hunt I would like to address some of his points to points.


1.) This issue of the actual existence of Satan. The accusation that the Church invented Satan, including the exegsis of Job

[quote]Yes, there are several references to the devil/Satan in the Bible. But many of the passages that people assume are about the
devil/Satan never really say that. For example, I defy you to go to the Garden of Eden story and show me where it says that Satan was there. It doesn't. It says "the serpent." Over the years, theologians and artists have interpreted the reference to the
serpent to be Satan. It has entered popular interpretation, but that's not what the Bible actually says. As for Lucifer, the "name"
is used one time — that's it — in the entire Bible, a small passage in the book of Isaiah. But sometimes the Hebrew word is translated as "morning star." Many of our notions about Satan as a fallen angel simply cannot be found in the Bible. Yes, the book of Job — one of the oldest books of the Bible, according to most biblical scholars — does make mention of Satan having a conversation with God. But if you read the book carefully and not through the eyes of the Judeo-Christian tradition, you will see that the character actually acts as an agent of God, not as an adversary.[/quote]2.) The theology of last things is not accurate based on the fact that he sees numerous stories. Even accusing Christianity of going against the Jewish revelation. Heaven and Hell is Zoroastrianism, not christian

[quote]The problem is that there is not just one consistent story in the Bible about such matters. Or even about such matters as the
afterlife. The early Hebrews didn't believe in an afterlife, certainly not in the notion of heaven and hell. At most, they believe in a shadowy existence known as Sheol. The notions of heaven and hell as came to be a part of the Judeo-Christian tradition came
about only during and following the Babylonian captivity, where the Jews were exposed to Zoroastrianism, with its dualistic ideas of
heaven and hell. Indeed, many of the notions of good and evil came out of Zoroastrianism. Furthermore, I could show you some obscure passages in the Bible that speak as if there is more than one god and that the Hebrew God (YHWH) is just one of many, albeit the best. I could show you passages where it talks in terms that seem much more like Greek mythology, where the gods have sex with humans and spawn a race of supermen. What's the point? Only this: There is not one consistent story. It's
many stories that over the years have been woven together in different ways and with different interpretations.[/quote]

3.) Logic of God's existence. (yes his function here is horrible, but having something hard and pointy to hit him with would help)

[quote]You say that you believe that everyone has an emptiness they try to fill but can't until they allow that which is beyond reason to rule
their life (a very Kierkegaardian viewpoint, by the way), that is, until they are ruled by faith. But how do we know that that which
you or anyone else calls "God" truly exists and is not just a wish that we have? Hmmm. I've studied a lot of philosophical discussions of this, especially what are called arguments for the existence of God. A lot of the arguments were advanced by Catholic theologians, such as St. Anselm (the ontological argument) and St. Thomas Aquinas (the cosmological argument and the teleological argument), as well as by philosophers like Immanuel Kant (the moral argument). Ultimately, the arguments fail. There is one"argument" that doesn't fail — that of experience. It's like the hymn "He Lives" — "You ask me how I know He lives. He lives within my heart." To the person who has experienced such a faith moment, nothing can be more convincing. To the person who hasn't,however, nothing can be sillier. The "argument" from experience is, therefore, both the best and the worst argument.[/quote]4.) Christianity is rejected for lack of logic. It is only a warm/fuzzy not logical

[quote]As for allowing you to base your side of the discussion on something that cannot be founded upon reason or logic, of course I can allow that. However, you will realize that there will be times when I challenge that and times when we will come to an impasse because you accept it on faith and I reject it for lack of reason and logic. And believe me, I understand your side a lot more than you might think I do[/quote]

My mom is going to continue in dialogue with this man. Might as well him him hard.

[Justin (Wiccan)]

[quote name='Staretz' post='1241294' date='Apr 13 2007, 07:52 AM']Well, for one thing, the idea that "God is just wish fulfillment and therefore there is no God" is a logical fallacy. I wish I had a dish of ice cream beside me. According to that logic, then ice cream does not exist. It is just wish fulfillment.[/quote]

Ooh! Debate stops for ice cream.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Justin (Wiccan)' post='1241499' date='Apr 13 2007, 02:04 PM']Ooh! Debate stops for ice cream. [/quote]
Can we interest you in tacos, so very tasty and good for you, or cheesecake [ phatmass specialities] as well?

[Justin (Wiccan)]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1241501' date='Apr 13 2007, 02:08 PM']Can we interest you in tacos, so very tasty and good for you, or cheesecake [ phatmass specialities] as well?[/quote]

I'm not fond of tacos, so very tasty and good for you,--cumin (a common spice in taco seasoning) smells like dirty sweatsocks to me. But give me cheesecake and I'll follow you anywhere.

[thessalonian]

One problem with his thinking struck me when he said that the devil cooperated with God in Job. He has a bit of a misunderstanding of that. God allows evil for the good of us. For our sanctification. Evil always works toward the good of those who love God. That is the paradox of it all. We suffer but in the end it makes us stronger. It is not that the evil is good but it is allowed to build us up and purify us. To chastise us as well when we need it. That is why God wins in the end. Satan doesn't think he is cooperating as your friend claims but in reality whatever he does brings about salvation for those who love God. The greatest example of all most certainly would be the crusifixion. I'll bet he thought he won when he got inside the minds of men and convinced them to put Jesus on the cross. I think the howl that the demonic did in the movie of the passion when he realized what he had brought about was likely accurate.

Have to say, somebody sending this kind of nonsense to my mom might loose some teeth. Hopefully I would have gotten there first to do it. Prayers going up.

My 2 cents.

Edited April 13, 2007 by thessalonian

[N/A Gone]

me? Violent? nooo..

[N/A Gone]

Can I get this moved back to Debate board? I want the militants to see it and they dont venture here but for giggles

[Guest T-Bone]

[quote name='Justin (Wiccan)' post='1241511' date='Apr 13 2007, 11:16 AM'][b]I'm not fond of tacos, so very tasty and good for you,[/b]--cumin (a common spice in taco seasoning) smells like dirty sweatsocks to me.[/quote]

You do want to be liked here, right?

[Justin (Wiccan)]

[quote name='T-Bone' post='1241736' date='Apr 13 2007, 04:37 PM']You do want to be liked here, right?[/quote]

Gotta call things the way they are, T-Bone.

But in all seriousness, we're cluttering up Rev's thread, and it is an important topic.

[jkaands]

Rev,

This man has NO BUSINESS writing emails on a private subject to your mother, which has nothing to do with the business they conduct on the city council (?--not sure of the venue).

She should delete them, and then admonish him to mind his own business. It doesn't matter if they happened to open a discussion over coffee. He is now engaging in verbal stalking and harassment.

If he persists, she should report him to whoever supervises their meetings.

In the meantime, she should label his emails as spam or junk and not open them. It's like not responding to a dirty phone caller.


Apologetics will get her nowhere. He is not interested in a debate. If they met in a theology class, it might be a different matter. in that case, even so, it would be more appropriate to pursue arguments in an open debate.

[Totus Tuus]

I haven't had time to read through the thread but it sounds like your mom might just want to block this person. There is a difference between discussing faith with someone and just plain being mean, and it sounds like this guy has crossed the line.

Prayers!