Building Your Own Church.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1246945' date='Apr 17 2007, 08:30 AM']You don't think that Roman Catholics [and every other Catholic including Orthodox for that matter] join their churches [referring to converts] because it conforms to their beliefs? I'm gonna say that I wouldn't have been Christmated and taken the Eucharist as Jesus' Body and Blood if it weren't for the Catholic Church conforming to my beliefs. My beliefs were that I wanted to worship God as he desired to be worshiped and belong to the church that the Early Church Fathers and Saints belonged to, so I'd chosen The Church because of that, it conformed to my beliefs.

Reza[/quote]

No, we [converts] had to conform our own will and beliefs to the Catholic Church. There are ways in which I would prefer to interpret scripture differently than the Church, but I do not have a personal guarantee that my interpretations are protected by the Holy Spirit.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

I think for a lot of converts (keeping in mind that I'm not a convert, but a revert), they saw something that did conform to their thinking, but then also saw things that they would have to conform to. For me, I chose the Catholic Church because, although at one time I didn't agree with many of her teachings, I did truly believe that God guaranteed the Catholic faith. Finding that the Church was in union with my personal thought in that regard, I came to conform myself to the Catholic Church in all other regards, because really, who am I to argue with the Holy Spirit?

God bless,

Micah

[Anomaly]

Good grief.

What Reza meant was that everybody is most likely choosing their religion according to what best is in line with their conscience, which, according to the current RC Catechism, is where God speaks directly to each man. Nobody should be choosing to act in conflict with what they believe their conscience is telling them. God did not intend us to be automotons. Agree with Reza and add qualifications, don't just quibble.

Right or wrong (we are imperfect) people should be trying to listen and follow their conscience. Being narrowminded is not being open to correction from your conscience. Yes, it's an involved process to pray, learn, listen to others (including those who you have a high regard), and for Catholics (the Church).

That's why the Catholic Church doesn't condemn people who may not be Catholic because they believe they are following God's guidance via the conscience. We aren't infallible and have a merciful and omniscient God to judge us and (thankfully) not each other. You may (and the RC Church does) firmly committed to the belief others are in error, but that is a smaller wrong than purposely acting against their conscience.

Edited April 17, 2007 by Anomaly

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1246945' date='Apr 17 2007, 06:30 AM']You don't think that Roman Catholics [and every other Catholic including Orthodox for that matter] join their churches [referring to converts] because it conforms to their beliefs? I'm gonna say that I wouldn't have been Christmated and taken the Eucharist as Jesus' Body and Blood if it weren't for the Catholic Church conforming to my beliefs. My beliefs were that I wanted to worship God as he desired to be worshiped and belong to the church that the Early Church Fathers and Saints belonged to, so I'd chosen The Church because of that, it conformed to my beliefs.

Reza[/quote]

Nope. I certainly didn't. I am catholic because the Catholic Church is the one founded by Jesus Christ. The Church is the pillar of truth, NOT my personal interpretation. If it had been up to me I would have picked something much easier to live with. But God doesn't ask our opinion of His rules, HE simply asks for obedience and faithfulness.

So you pick what is TRUE, not with is comfortable.

read my little caption below

[Justified Saint]

The Catholic Church doesn't teach that one's conscience is infallible, or that, right or wrong, you follow it always because you cannot do otherwise. There is such a thing as an informed conscience, and that is what everyone should strive for.

[Katholikos]

One God (1 Tm 2:5), one lawgiver and judge (James 4:12), one Lord, one faith, one baptism (Ephesians 4:5), one narrow gate that leads to life (Mt 7:14), one flock, one shepherd (John 10:16), one church (Mt 16:18-19). And Jesus prayed, ". . . may they [his followers] all be one, so that the world may believe that you sent me" (John 17:20).

The greatest obstacle to belief in Christianity and evangelization efforts is the thousands of competing and conflicting Protestant denominations, all claiming to offer the truth. "Get the correct interpretation of the Bible here," they all shout.

Yeah, what we really need is more of them. No two alike. Choose your own truth.

Likos

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1247009' date='Apr 17 2007, 08:39 AM']Nope. I certainly didn't. I am catholic because the Catholic Church is the one founded by Jesus Christ. The Church is the pillar of truth, NOT my personal interpretation. If it had been up to me I would have picked something much easier to live with. But God doesn't ask our opinion of His rules, HE simply asks for obedience and faithfulness.

So you pick what is TRUE, not with is comfortable.

read my little caption below [/quote]

Weather you accept it or not, this is what conformed to your beliefs. You believe that the Roman Catholic Church is the only church founded by Jesus Christ, which is why you chose it. If it went against everything you believed in, then you wouldn't be Roman Catholic because you wouldn't believe or have faith in it.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Revprodeji' post='1246631' date='Apr 16 2007, 11:42 PM']No, and you understand that is not the case. Lets say a specific church to reach young couples, or a specific church to reach asian immigrants. Not polygamist.
It makes me sad to hear such polemic words from you friend
Your own family?

Words are beyond me. But you guys all pretty much smell of elderberries right now. I pray to God and to all the saints that I never have the perspective that you display here. If saying this makes me never a militant, or it even gets me a phisy that is fine. Heck, a mod might edit this. But you guys... I dunno. Why would you ever say that? Are protestants unintellgent hippies? Children on a lil bus? Are they less than you? For a protestant to have a legit faith takes so much time, and so much commitment to the scriptures and to love. To council and hold the weak. My own convinctions of the sacraments and the authority of history led to my conversion. But dont think for a second I felt protestantism lacking. (I felt there was plenty of idiots involved, but I think the same for catholicism) I have spent the better part of 3 years now on this website, i have spent countless hours reading posts from you guys. I have spent time in dialogue with you guys. I have grown to respect and love you as brothers. But to see you beat down and dehumanize someone who is for me an example of heartfilled faith that I have spent numerous parts of the last 4 years desiring to be like, it just leaves me overwhelmed.[/quote]

First of all, my comment "divided and conquerable..." was not a thought of taking up proverbial swords and conquering the proverbial churches, but an observation that there is vulnerability in there communities. I know that they are real people with real dignities and real intellects. But these people have a real fallen nature too, and there is fallibility in their communities. There are many a time a community splits over a small detail; the devil wanders around with a chisel in his hand... or an axe... chose your analogy (chisel stone in two or chop wood in two... ) . I was a protestant once and I chose The Church (ultimately) because of the Full truth. Not because I felt it was my way of interpreting the bible.

My apologies to those offended. God Bless you all and Our Lady keep.

Edited April 18, 2007 by Sacred Music Man