Woman And Blacks

[dairygirl4u2c]

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[mod]Poll option added -Aloysius[/mod]

[Aloysius]

so long as you are addressing those of us who are conservatives and Orthodox and Conservative Catholics, we would certainly have been in favor of voting rights for any race; the Church has always condemned race-based discrimination.

the women's suffrage issue is much more complex. personally, I favor a traditional system which would give one vote to each family; but that'd only work in a stable traditional society. since our society has so crumbled, such a system is now impossible; there are far too many people who live with no relation to any family, and those that do have families that are so diverse and unclassifiable that it's too hard to get one vote out of them.

anyway, I would have supported going a different route than the route that was taken regarding women's suffrage; but that's only because back then societatal institutions like the family were still much more intact. under the current system with the current sociological conditions; sure women's suffrage is fine. back then, I wouldn't have staunchly opposed it, but I would have seen as dangerous the splitting up of the family unit into two seperate and thus possibly contradicting voices in the society, because I would have seen that as dividing family unity to some extent. I wouldn't have had any real strong feelings in opposition to women's suffrage, though.

oh, and there will be those who would declare themselves far too conservative to support any form of democracy. haha.

[Budge]

Why didnt you have the option NOT to deny both?

[Aloysius]

yeah, really. would you like me to add it for you? otherwise it's a totally biased and irrelevant poll (I didn't vote)

EDIT: actually, I am going to just go ahead and add the option. let me know if it angers you that I've edited your poll.

[Socrates]

What's to prevent non-conservatives or anti-conservatives from voting in this poll?

Hardly a scientific poll at all methinks.

[Sojourner]

well none of our polls are exactly "scientific"

they're meant to generate discussion

[dairygirl4u2c]

thanks for editing that al.

so if you woulda been for one vote per family, it seems like that's essentially what it was. the guys could vote, then they'd keep voting when the family was formed. unless you'd be against single guys voting?

[Aloysius]

in a stable society, I could see the consensus of the family forming the one vote. wouldn't really work on a large scale fragmented diverse society, though. single people would have their say in the consensus vote of their parent's family.

[RezaMikhaeil]

I'm conservative [thou I didn't vote cause I thought it was directed at republicans] but I don't believe that giving women the right to vote or the whole feminist movement as a whole helped a single person [hope this doesn't offend nobody]. In regards to rights for women and blacks, I don't see how a religious person could deny any person rights, its just that different rights apply for different people.

Gloria Alred has been made famous as a feminist suing organizations such as "the boys scouts of america" [in which I'd once belonged to as a child] for "discriminating against girls/women". Do I believe that women/girls have a right to join the boyscouts? Heck no, but do they have the right to join the girl scouts? Sure, that's why there is a girl scouts organization to begin with... but did Gloria attempt to sue the girl scouts... NOPE! When asked if she would consider such a case, after hurting the boyscouts so much, she said something along the lines of "I'm not interested in that"

In regards to racial rights, no race is elevated above another in God's eyes, and we should elevate a particular race either, "No Greek, Nor Jew".

Reza

[Paddington]

I doubt that anybody here supporting the "one vote per family by the father" idea would mind the mother voting if the father were deceased.

I like the discussion, but how can anybody know what they would do in a hypothetical situation? Even non-hypotheticals can be difficult to figure out. We naturally think that we know ourselves so well, but that is often self-deception. Christ rebuked some Jews who said, "if we were alive back then, we would not have stoned the prophets." We should only want God's compliments; our own self-compliments don't have very much weight.

Future generations might consider (most of) us in the USA to be oppressive in our eating habits. I kinda hope they do anyways. I fall way short of what I know is best on that one.

[Budge]

[quote]I don't believe that giving women the right to vote[/quote]

Are you all against women owning personal property too?

[dairygirl4u2c]

I'm surprised at the extent people wanted to deny the rights. This was mostly to show that you're only conservative now often only because you're suppose to be, but when times change, you don't believe it, and would claim you wouldn't have back then either even though you probably would have.

[Budge]

You think the Catholic church supports women's rights?

Im not talking about feminism but just ordinary being treated like decent human beings.

The dudes who think suffarage is wrong are kind of creeping me out. Keep her barefoot, pregnant and silent in the house eh>?

[Totus Tuus]

I of course agree with the Church in saying that discrimination against any race for any reasons is wrong.

As for women voting, I agree with Aloysius.

[quote name='Budge']Im not talking about feminism but just ordinary being treated like decent human beings.[/quote]

If you want to start a thread on whether or not the Catholic Church treats womanhood with equal dignity to men, there is a plethora of Phatmassers who could help you see that she does.

God bestowed the highest honor of the human race upon a woman, by the way, in making a woman His holy mother. That is also not to say that women are better, but the Church follows His example in treating women with the dignity originally conferred on them by the Creator.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Budge' post='1249047' date='Apr 19 2007, 05:47 AM']Are you all against women owning personal property too?

[/quote]

Voting and Personal Property are two different subjects.

[cmotherofpirl]

Men and women are equal when it comes to voting rights, and legal protection under the law.
Considering however, how poorly run the country is, maybe voting rights should be restricted to only women until some major issues are resolved.

[Mercy me]

Why is this poll aimed at conservatives and republicans? Republicans and conservatives were for granting equal right to blacks. It was southerners and democrats that fought it so fiercely. Ironically it was not such a conservative thing for them to be doing but it goes to the conservative ideal of self-determination.

[toledo_jesus]

I voted outrageously.

In reality, I think it is hard to apply our standards to a different time. None of us would have been brought up with the same experiences of race and gender that we have today. This isn't to deny that we can make a moral judgment on past actions, but rather to say that it wouldn't be productive to dwell on past mistakes.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1306589' date='Jun 30 2007, 03:59 PM']Men and women are equal when it comes to voting rights, and legal protection under the law.
Considering however, how poorly run the country is, maybe voting rights should be restricted to only women until some major issues are resolved.[/quote]
Yes, once we have run up our national debt with purchases of shoes and new upholstery then the issue of who should be in charge of government will be resolved.

game, set, match.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1306836' date='Jun 30 2007, 08:03 PM']Yes, once we have run up our national debt with purchases of shoes and new upholstery then the issue of who should be in charge of government will be resolved.

game, set, match.
[/quote]

Its a darn sight better than buying guns, tanks, and more weapons with shiny buttons...