shortnun Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 [quote name='Veritas' post='1253536' date='Apr 22 2007, 08:33 PM']+ For Example (and forgive me if it sounds terse, I just want to present the material directly): Let me tell you about the non-habited LCWR sisters in my diocese: They sponsor the "NEW WAYS" conference, which is totally heretical They host the V-Monologues, which is an affront to modesty, decency, and women's dignity They sponsor pro- GLBT events on their campuses and parishes They support women's "ordination" on their campuses and parishes They advocate abortion They support contraception on their campuses They persist in liturgical abuses like giving homilies They supress Eucharistic Adoration The speak-out publically against the bishop, pope, and magisterium They incite dissent They laugh in the face of their disobedience Do these sound like good religious sisters to you? (these sisters were linked above) They are the Sisters of Saint Joseph of Carondelet The Sisters of Saint Benedict of Saint Benedict Monastery in Maplewood, MN The Sisters of Saint Benedict of the College of Saint Benedict The Franciscan Sisters of Perpetual Adoration in LaCrosse, WI The Franciscan Sisters of Little Falls Others In my extensive experience, faithful LCWR sisters are the EXCEPTION, not, the rule. This is a horrific sadness and a travesty. But let us call things by their proper names. Innocent young women should not be ignorant of the agendas of these communities and that is why I am naming them above. They are well-developed, extensive, and heretical. Again, they have "good intentions" in their disobedience, but this is not enough. Ill-formed consciences are not an excuse when one does not do the proper work to form them. Ultimately, we must defer to the teachings of the Church! Let us pray for a return to authentic religious life in the vein of CMSWR communities. In an English interview given in 2003, Pope Benedict, then Josef Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect of the Congregation of Divine Faith, stated the greatest danger to the Church today: Becoming merely a social institution. In other words, it is good to provide the corporal works of mercy, but it is not enough to merit the carte blanche acceptance of the LCWR and its members[/quote] Veritas, haven't you posted this exact same post in another thread here? I do believe that many people have commented that we post charitably here. I would add that we do so prudently as well. I have difficulty seeing your recent posts as done out of charity or prudence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritas Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 [quote name='Incarnate Word Postulant' post='1253172' date='Apr 22 2007, 03:54 PM']I want to say that in a certain way I understand the sadness you feel when members of religious communities act against Church teachings. It is sad that by their actions they choose to not be in communion with the Church. However, as an individual I can not judge a whole community, a whole congregation, order, or council. Do I pray for these people? I sure do, but I pray that God's will be done, not my own. I pray that their public actions of rebellion, or ignorance, or hurt, do not affect my heart. In the end, my vocation rests in God's hands. I also want to say that when we have not lived in community it is very easy to idealize religious life. But religious life is hard! We are not perfect, whether we wear a habit or not. Let's ask ourselves what good it does to our vocations to rant in anger for the errors or suppossed errors of others? It is not good for our hearts. It is not good for our vocations. It is not good for our world. I pray for each one of you, that you will love like Jesus and that you will use your youth and your fire for God, that you pray uncesantly and love with a love that never says enough . And remember to act justly, to love tenderly and to walk humbly with our God[/quote] + Sister makes several very good points. And, realizing, to discern tone via posts is difficult, I wish to make clear my good intentions for the holiness of all and the eternal home of heaven for all religious. I think it is important to address a few others, however: 1. The Holy Father has asked religious sisters to wear an identifiable habit, so yes, when sisters do not, that does reflect poorly on them. 2. That is not to say they do not do good social work. 3. Authentic religious life is about much more than social work. 4. No one is condemning anyone else to hell, that is the judgement we are not to make. However, in assessing the positives and negatives of individual and communal actions of religious, especially when they are seeking new membership on this board, we not only have the right, but the duty to be honest and direct in that assessment when those individuals and communities are teaching against the Church, often under the guise of "diversity" or "conscience". Dissent and subsequently sin, are two very serious things! And, as we are talking about communities of women, who are in leadership and formation roles of other women, children, and parish communities, we must call a spade a spade, even when it is unpleasant to do so. 5. Precisely because religious life is hard, religious women need to be grounded in prayer and glued to Jesus, Mary, the Saints, the Vicar of Christ and the Magisterium of the Church. We have seen the fruits of religious life when divorced from the above. 6. Now, what I have done by bringing all of this up, is only 1/2 of it, the other half is to pray, surrender, and love. We must not be deceived into thinking, however, that somehow it is not appropriate to discern, speak, and spread the truth about the agendas of certain groups of people, including religious. The enemy loves this kind of silence and young women and men deserve to know the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritas Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 (edited) [quote name='shortnun' post='1253574' date='Apr 22 2007, 08:49 PM']Veritas, haven't you posted this exact same post in another thread here? I do believe that many people have commented that we post charitably here. I would add that we do so prudently as well. I have difficulty seeing your recent posts as done out of charity or prudence.[/quote] + Do you wish to address the content of what I have posted? I am simply stating the facts. Discerning women deserve to know the truth. That is not uncharitable. These sisters and the LCWR have been public dissenters and they have been publically admonished. If what I am is doing is somehow uncharitable, I ask for your charity and perhaps you can pm me a few suggestions. Again, I speak directly, and I know that does not often come across well via posting. I pray you will understand my intent is the salvation of souls ending in eternal happiness with Christ and that is the only reason I am posting. The post you referenced was in response to the CSJ post. I can only assume she did not see it. Realizing what CSJ stands for, there is not doubt she will be offended because many of the CSJ works are completely incompatible with Church teaching. However, that is their defense against God, not mine. Edited April 23, 2007 by Veritas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
be_thou_my_vision Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 Umm I think it would be a good idea to either move this thread to the debate portion of the phorum or close the thread. I'm sorry this thread had to develop into this debate... I was just trying to expose some religious orders. How do I move or close a thread anyway? God Bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritas Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 (edited) [quote name='be_thou_my_vision' post='1253641' date='Apr 22 2007, 09:20 PM']Umm I think it would be a good idea to either move this thread to the debate portion of the phorum or close the thread. I'm sorry this thread had to develop into this debate... I was just trying to expose some religious orders. How do I move or close a thread anyway? God Bless.[/quote] + A mod has to do it. But, yes, let's continue the debate! It is important to get at the truth of this, I think! We all need to be savy Catholics and that requires information and thinking logically. There is nothing to be sorry about in having an honest intellectual discussion. The Church says Fides et Ratio Let's get some other pm'ers into it! Edited April 23, 2007 by Veritas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
be_thou_my_vision Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 Okay, then I would like to move this to the debate section... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlmom Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Jenny, first of all, thanks for starting this thread in the first place. You contributed a useful resource. Yes, some of the links include orders whose reforms have gone flat. The natural consequences to them will be that their survival as a community will fade over time. We're already seeing this happen. The need of "exposing the truth", as stated in another's post, is unnecessary and unproductive here, and does not fit with the focus of VS. A few of you on this phorum need to get a life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 [quote]A few of you on this phorum need to get a life.[/quote] Ouch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJames Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 (edited) [quote name='Veritas' post='1253536' date='Apr 22 2007, 04:33 PM']+ For Example (and forgive me if it sounds terse, I just want to present the material directly): Let me tell you about the non-habited LCWR sisters in my diocese: They sponsor the "NEW WAYS" conference, which is totally heretical They host the V-Monologues, which is an affront to modesty, decency, and women's dignity They sponsor pro- GLBT events on their campuses and parishes They support women's "ordination" on their campuses and parishes They advocate abortion They support contraception on their campuses They persist in liturgical abuses like giving homilies They supress Eucharistic Adoration The speak-out publically against the bishop, pope, and magisterium They incite dissent They laugh in the face of their disobedience Do these sound like good religious sisters to you? (these sisters were linked above) They are the Sisters of Saint Joseph of Carondelet The Sisters of Saint Benedict of Saint Benedict Monastery in Maplewood, MN The Sisters of Saint Benedict of the College of Saint Benedict The Franciscan Sisters of Perpetual Adoration in LaCrosse, WI The Franciscan Sisters of Little Falls Others In my extensive experience, faithful LCWR sisters are the EXCEPTION, not, the rule. This is a horrific sadness and a travesty. But let us call things by their proper names. Innocent young women should not be ignorant of the agendas of these communities and that is why I am naming them above. They are well-developed, extensive, and heretical. Again, they have "good intentions" in their disobedience, but this is not enough. Ill-formed consciences are not an excuse when one does not do the proper work to form them. Ultimately, we must defer to the teachings of the Church! Let us pray for a return to authentic religious life in the vein of CMSWR communities. In an English interview given in 2003, Pope Benedict, then Josef Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect of the Congregation of Divine Faith, stated the greatest danger to the Church today: Becoming merely a social institution. In other words, it is good to provide the corporal works of mercy, but it is not enough to merit the carte blanche acceptance of the LCWR and its members[/quote] 'He who is not with me, is against me"...by you know who..(not George Bush) The catholic Church Fullness of Truth THE Body of Christ,living on earth Edited April 23, 2007 by EJames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starets Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I would love to see more links and info regarding monastic communities outside North America. It is good to see flourishing communities anywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritas Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 [quote name='Staretz' post='1253967' date='Apr 23 2007, 05:58 AM']I would love to see more links and info regarding monastic communities outside North America. It is good to see flourishing communities anywhere [/quote] + Is there a special thread anywhere for non North American communities? Maybe we could start one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritas Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 [quote name='stlmom' post='1253766' date='Apr 22 2007, 10:46 PM']The need of "exposing the truth", as stated in another's post, is unnecessary and unproductive here, and does not fit with the focus of VS.[/quote] + Who says? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
be_thou_my_vision Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 Dear Moderators, Please close this thread. Love, Jenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 moved to debate table Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritas Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 [quote name='Lil Red' post='1305164' date='Jun 29 2007, 01:12 AM']moved to debate table[/quote] + I didn't know we were going to talk about it again. It's been a couple months, hasn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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