Mormonism?

[jckinsman]

My son's freind is mormon, I know alittle, I would like to know more.He has come to me a few times,questioning things,about his faith! He is only 15. Who are these people and how do I express Christs love for him, without stepping on moms beliefs!? There family is in tough times right now! It's tough! JC

Edited April 30, 2007 by jckinsman

[White Knight]

1) Mormons believe that the Trinity is Three Seperate God's they dont see the Unity in them. or God in Three Equal Persons.
2) Mormons have added another book that is included in their Bible After the Book of Revelation. "The Book of Mormons"
3) Mormons Believe that ordinary human beings can acheive Godhood.
4) Its their popluar belief that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers.
5) Joseph Smith has thought that all current Christian churches have fallen away from the truth of the faith in his time, and started his own Church and such.
6) Mormons believed Jesus visted the Native Americans twice, once before his Resurrection, then after.
7) Joseph Smith's views on the Bible were later revised according to his version of what actually took place, and end of 100% contradicting itself entirally with what the book of Mormons actually proclaims, while attacted to the original Bible.


Theres more, there, however I will give you a link to help you out to prove some of my claims about Mormonism.

[b][url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Gods_of_the_Mormon_Church.asp"]Catholic information about Mormon Beliefs[/url]

[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Distinctive_Beliefs_of_Mormon.asp"]Catholic information about Mormon beliefs 2[/url]

[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Mormon_Stumpers.asp"]Catholic information about Mormon belief 3[/url]

[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Mormonism_Baptism_for_the_Dead.asp"]Catholic information about mormon belief 4[/url]

[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Problems_with_the_Book_of_Mormon.asp"]Catholic information on Mormon Beliefs 5[/url][/b]


[color="#FF0000"][size=4][b]God Bless, Pax Christi, Happy 5th Sunday of Easter of the 50 days of Easter.[/b][/size][/color]

Edited April 30, 2007 by White Knight

[Paddington]

That is really cool that you have that opportunity.

If I may give advice....

1. Don't use the word 'cult' to describe Mormons.

2. Don't trust anti-Mormon writers to have done all of their homework. The anti-Mormon writers might make a ton of good points and then misrepresent a couple things. I suspect that happens quite a bit. It only confirms to them their belief that the whole world is out to get them. Of course, they can tell you they are being misrepresented when they are not also. And there is plenty of opportunity for terminology misunderstandings.

3. Encourage him to read theology that is not comparative theology. Things like the Bible or Catechism or Christology or Holiness Tips. He might be reading comparative theology on his own without you having to tell him.

4. Anything you can throw in about him honoring his parents and deeply considering all their words. Obeying them as much as possible.

5. It seems inevitable that the impressive low level of nominalism in Mormonism will come up. You can express being impressed and point out that newer religions tend to have lower levels of it. "Newer" ..."religionS (plural)" ...eh? eh?

6. If he says anything about debunking Mormonism along the lines of false prophecies or plagiarism of typos in the King James Version that made it into the Book of Mormon...then ....well....he brought it up. That would be a good time for something a little more "forceful." Like...."wow. that IS really significant. Not that I know the details. But...geesh!"

7. If he brings up the "burning bosom" thing that Mormons talk about.... (They read the Book of Mormon and then know it is true, because their bosom burns.)........I would not mention the possibility of Satanic deception. (Maybe he will.) But, if you can throw in something about how convincing spiritual experiences are not unique to any religion and can include romance and other things...then maybe that would help him be wise on that issue.

8. He could bring up The Apostasy that was spoken of in the NT as coming soon. Mormons have a strong sense of The Apostasy. It might not be obvious to him that The Apostasy has happened by pretty much everybody's standards. Who is religious and does not see the world as a theological and moral disaster zone?

9. You and him have a very awesome common denominator - you can keep each other in your prayers. That can be brought up for sure.

I hope that can help. Sorry if I'm preaching to the choir or if you already had these conversations.

Peace,
Paddington

[White Knight]

[quote name='Paddington' post='1260463' date='Apr 30 2007, 04:41 AM']
That is really cool that you have that opportunity.

If I may give advice....

1. Don't use the word 'cult' to describe Mormons.

2. Don't trust anti-Mormon writers to have done all of their homework. The anti-Mormon writers might make a ton of good points and then misrepresent a couple things. I suspect that happens quite a bit. It only confirms to them their belief that the whole world is out to get them. Of course, they can tell you they are being misrepresented when they are not also. And there is plenty of opportunity for terminology misunderstandings.

3. Encourage him to read theology that is not comparative theology. Things like the Bible or Catechism or Christology or Holiness Tips. He might be reading comparative theology on his own without you having to tell him.

4. Anything you can throw in about him honoring his parents and deeply considering all their words. Obeying them as much as possible.

5. It seems inevitable that the impressive low level of nominalism in Mormonism will come up. You can express being impressed and point out that newer religions tend to have lower levels of it. "Newer" ..."religionS (plural)" ...eh? eh?

6. If he says anything about debunking Mormonism along the lines of false prophecies or plagiarism of typos in the King James Version that made it into the Book of Mormon...then ....well....he brought it up. That would be a good time for something a little more "forceful." Like...."wow. that IS really significant. Not that I know the details. But...geesh!"

7. If he brings up the "burning bosom" thing that Mormons talk about.... (They read the Book of Mormon and then know it is true, because their bosom burns.)........I would not mention the possibility of Satanic deception. (Maybe he will.) But, if you can throw in something about how convincing spiritual experiences are not unique to any religion and can include romance and other things...then maybe that would help him be wise on that issue.

8. He could bring up The Apostasy that was spoken of in the NT as coming soon. Mormons have a strong sense of The Apostasy. It might not be obvious to him that The Apostasy has happened by pretty much everybody's standards. Who is religious and does not see the world as a theological and moral disaster zone?

9. You and him have a very awesome common denominator - you can keep each other in your prayers. That can be brought up for sure.

I hope that can help. Sorry if I'm preaching to the choir or if you already had these conversations.

Peace,
Paddington[/quote]

Very well thought out Paddington, could not have said better myself, however I think both aspects need to be combind for jckinsman to achieve what needs to be done in this.

[carrdero]

[quote name='jckinsman' post='1260441' date='Apr 30 2007, 02:20 AM']My son's freind is mormon, I know alittle, I would like to know more.He has come to me a few times,questioning things,about his faith! He is only 15. Who are these people and how do I express Christs love for him, without stepping on moms beliefs!? There family is in tough times right now! It's tough! JC[/quote]
For an in depth review, PBS is running a four hour special April 30 (2 hours) and May 1st (2 hours). It will probably review the beliefs as well as the history. Pop up some popcorn and check your local listings and time schedule.

Edited April 30, 2007 by carrdero

[Budge]

Oh well from Mormonism to Catholicism, frying pan to fire...

Ive witnessed to Mormons given them tracts and have informed them they dont need Temple rituals to enter heaven.

Mormonism is a LOT like Catholicism, plenty of parallels..

Temple rituals equal sacraments.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1260497' date='Apr 30 2007, 06:57 AM']Mormonism is a LOT like Catholicism, plenty of parallels..[/quote]
That only proves that Satan's designs imitate God's.

[Sojourner]

oooo, this is a good thread! Very timely. There is one Mormon girl in my school and I am friends with her ... we spent a couple of hours chatting yesterday, and since we are both converts (she from Presbyterian to Mormon and me from Presbyterian to Catholic) we both know quite a bit about our faiths, but I don't know much about the LDS beliefs, so this is good.

Edited April 30, 2007 by Terra Firma

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote]Oh well from Mormonism to Catholicism, frying pan to fire...[/quote]

The refining fire of the Holy Spirit. Deo gratias!

[Daniel Nekic]

I also read in some news report that a group of Mormons baptised JPII posthumously.
Yes, they believe in baptism by proxy.
They get a Mormon, and baptise them again on the deceased's behalf.

You should find some very useful stuff on the Mormons at the Catholic Answers website - www.catholic.com
Very well balanced, and with well thoughts out Catholic refutations of their beliefs.

[RezaMikhaeil]

My favorite heretical doctrine of Mormonism is: Brigham Young said that Jesus Christ wasn't impregnated in St. Mary through the Holy Spirit but through YHWH [despite the scriptures in Mathew], mormons still hold this doctrine and when confronted [thous that know their own church doctrine] state that Joseph Smith said that Mathew was originally written in Ancient Egyptian [despite the fact that it's written in Greek] and that Satan decieved the church to believe that the Greek was the original text, and therefore it was improperly translated into Greek. Therefore the translators put the Holy Spirit rather then YHWH.

Reza

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Illustrious Papist' post='1260529' date='Apr 30 2007, 08:02 AM']I also read in some news report that a group of Mormons baptised JPII posthumously.
Yes, they believe in baptism by proxy.
They get a Mormon, and baptise them again on the deceased's behalf.

You should find some very useful stuff on the Mormons at the Catholic Answers website - www.catholic.com
Very well balanced, and with well thoughts out Catholic refutations of their beliefs.[/quote]
this is true, from what I've read ... that's why genealogies are so important, because you can look up ancestors and be baptized for them.

[Guest T-Bone]

[quote name='Budge' post='1260497' date='Apr 30 2007, 05:57 AM']Oh well from Mormonism to Catholicism, frying pan to fire...

Ive witnessed to Mormons given them tracts and have informed them they dont need Temple rituals to enter heaven.

Mormonism is a LOT like Catholicism, plenty of parallels..

Temple rituals equal sacraments.[/quote]

Somehow I knew you'd show up and somehow try to turn this into a thread about how the Church is evilllllllllllllllllllllllll!!!!!!

[Starets]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1260501' date='Apr 30 2007, 09:09 AM']That only proves that Satan's designs imitate God's.[/quote]
and it shows that apples are not oranges

[carrdero]

I visited a Mormon Church recently for a report that I wanted to write for another forum. The church was nice, the people were gracious and they made me feel welcome and respected my beliefs. I have a follow up visit with a missionary in the attempt to understand their beliefs better. I recently read an 800 page tome on the early history of the Mormons entitled [u]The Rocky Mountain Saints[/u] that was very interesting and informative so I have to say it has been a very Mormon month for me.

Edited April 30, 2007 by carrdero

[jeffpugh]

Carrdero, tell us more...

[carrdero]

[b]The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints[/b]

April 13, 2007

I awoke Sunday morning to the predicted weather of heavy winds mixed with rain and ice. I would peer outside for most of the early morning to notice that most of the yard was covered with a coat of ice. It was a difficult decision to venture out that day but it seemed that I made the right choice.

The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is located north of my Modena residence on route 32 in the town of New Paltz and it is something that I recognize quite frequently on my way into the local college town. It is a large building but the distinct sign in the front lawn that welcomes all visitors was very inviting that morning in this treacherous rain. I noticed many empty parking spaces but I was also early. I enjoy arriving early because it gives me a chance to mingle and get to know people and make new friends.

No sooner had a hung up my coat that I met Sister Kathleen who noticed that I was a new member. She asked me if I have ever been to this church and I confessed that I had attended a Mormon church before but in a different city and it was over many years ago. The interesting thing about the inside of the churches, are that they are conservatively decorated without statues, candles or common alters. I introduced myself and explained that I was writing a article for the [color="#FF0000"](website name deleted-carrdero) [/color]Newsletter and that I was impressed with the Mormon members who attended the forum and thought it would be a good idea to visit the church to see how the Latter Day Saints conducted their meetings.
She gave me a quick run down of the day’s services and I asked a few questions but we were soon interrupted by the start of the meeting.

The first part of the meeting involved the introduction where we were all welcomed and thanked for coming out in this weather. As I expected, there were probably a few parishioners who could not attend because of the bad climate.

This was followed immediately by the announcements in which I was informed that there were two special ceremonies being performed today; a baptism and an ordination to the priesthood. An interesting footnote to mention is that there is a group vote in favor of the gentlemen who was being ordained. A show of hands seemed to indicate that everyone was pleased with this nomination.

We began the meeting with Hymn 119, “Come We That Love The Lord” and the opening prayer proceeded this song. The Sacrements were then blessed and passed around carefully to the members of the congregation. I was surprised to see that even young children were permitted to partake in the bread and water.

Hymn 187 “God Loved Us, So He Sent His Son” soon followed.

After the hymn, Sister Hamm stepped up to the podium and gave a speech entitled the Primordial Existence Of The Purpose Of Life. After the meeting I had the opportunity to compliment this woman on her talk and I noticed she had a bandage on her pinky finger. She explained that she only had a short time to prepare for her speech that she was filling in for a cancelled speaker and that the night before she was in an Emergency Hospital Ward for an accident she had with her finger but still continued to prepare and organize her speech. I was impressed not only with her professionalism but her dedication to come in that day to make sure the lecture was delivered.

Hymn 227, “There Is Sunshine In My Soul Today” was performed and it was Brother Gallo’s turn to give his talk entitled How Do We Come To

Christ. He related his story about when he arrived to states it had taken him awhile to understand the language. Even though he didn’t understand English he was not going to let this be an obstacle to his faith.

The meeting closed with Hymn 81 “Press Forward Saints” and afterward a heartfelt prayer.

After the service I was able to talk to Elder Prince who also noticed that I was a new face. He explained that if I needed to identify any of the Elders that I could recognize them by their black suits. We talked for awhile and he introduced me to President Bristow. I explained who I was I why I attended. He invited me to stay for the second meeting which was an adult school gathering with the topic discussion focusing on the New Testament and the handing down of the “keys to the kingdom”. There were scriptural research and plenty of question and answer opportunities among the members.

After this service we had to exit the room while they were preparing for yet another meeting but on the way out I was able to talk to a member who lived locally and he offered me a visit from the missionaries. I thought that this would be an interesting prospect and I wrote down my name and phone number. He wished me luck in my research and I thanked him for his kindness.

I learned many things that day but I realized that my purpose could not be completed in one visit. The dedication and acquisition of knowledge for the Latter Day Saints is an on-going process. Their fellowship is gracious and I found many members willing to extend this friendship to someone new like me and when I had questions, these concerns were answered politely and sincerely. If anyone has the time I would whole heartedly recommend a visit to your local Latter Day Saint Church. I include the official website for the LDS organization for anyone who wishes to further their research about the Mormons as well as a city search for anyone who wants to consider attending a meeting to their local Church Of Jesus Christ Of latter Day Saints.

[url="http://lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg"]http://lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg[/url]
[url="http://national.citysearch.com/"]http://national.citysearch.com/[/url]

[img]http://www.geocities.com/sonofcardero/LDS3.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.geocities.com/sonofcardero/LDS4.JPG[/img]

Edited May 1, 2007 by carrdero

[jckinsman]

Thank you! The information is helpful! Its just a very difficult, heartbreaking situation! I'm glad Budge you can still find it in your heart to slam the catholic church yet once again! I hope that someday,you can find it in your heart to forgive the catholic church for whatever it did to you! I really would like to know what that is? You fill the threads with hate for the catholic church! I'am new to PM budge,so for awhile I just sat and read what you wrote! You are one angry,hurt person! I am sorry! I typed up alot,(and backspaced it all) just now, and I just thought to myself, Why am I doing this? I think Budge you should ask yourself the same thing!? It is clear you do not want to know the truth,......so be it Budge,........If you have it, good for you! The Lord in his love and mercy will let you have your sin if thats what you crave. You have free will. He will be here for you WHEN you come back.............a little more humble...and so will your PHAMILY!
Back to the topic! I saw that there was a special on mormonism ,on TV ! Did anyone see it? This is a good thing to know where people are coming from! Its finding the right words that do not compromise my faith, well not underminding the parents! He is saying ,that there are things ,he just doesn't think are right and thing he flat out just doesn't believe. So I listen quietly and pray for the family. I know that they are high up in the order because his Grandfather was a Bishop! Does that mean something? He said he wanted to quit his faith. Almost as if he had a club membership there. I told him to be very careful,he is still 15! JC
Hey, also thank you for the play by play I always wanted to know what they did in church!

Edited May 1, 2007 by jckinsman

[Katholikos]

It would be most helpful to read [i]Inside Mormonism[/i] by Isaiah Bennett, a Catholic priest who became a Mormon, realized his error, and returned to the Church. He wrote the book in the hope that his experience would help others avoid his mistake.

Bennett wrote another book, [i]When Mormons Call[/i], to teach Catholics and others to recognize the errors in Mormon arguments when the "missionaries" come to the door. Both books available from Catholic Answers or Amazon.

Mormonism teaches that the Catholic Church (though they don't name it) went into apostasy shortly after the last apostle died and was not operative until Joseph Smith was appointed by Christ in a vision to found the Church of Christ of Latter Day Saints in 1830, which is the only True Church.

Joseph Smith had a penchant for detecting treasure on people's land by looking into magic stones in his hat with which he covered his face. When the landowner dug for the treasure, spirits had "moved" it, and they had to dig again. And again. And again. Smith was convicted in New York of something like fraud for these practices.

It was supposedly revealed to Smith that golden plates on which the Book of Mormon was written in "Reformed Egyptian" were buried on a hill in NY and Joe said he dug 'em up. He "translated" the BOM, using magic spectacles called Urim and Thummin, by sitting on one side of a blanket draped over a rope while his "secretary" sat on the other. JS read the "translation" to the secretary, who wrote it down. This was to protect the "secretary." You see, if anyone but Joe even so much as glanced at those golden plates, God would strike him dead. After Joe finished the translation, God took the plates back to heaven. The BOM is a mixture of the KJV and a book written by a guy named Spaulding which was fiction about the American Indians being the descendants of the Lost Tribes of Israel. Got the picture? The story goes on and on from there.

The Mormons have three "scriptures" besides the KJV, which was "corrected" by Smith. He wrote the BOM, Doctrine & Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. Smith called himself a Prophet. He had many "revelations."

Smith had 49 documented wives, some of whom were married to other husbands. The women (and their husbands, if they had one) were told that God had revealed to Joe that they were to be his bride. God sent Emma Hale, wife #1 of Smith, a personal message in the Doctrine & Covenants that she was not to object. Original Mormon teaching was that polygamy (polygyny, actually) was a prerequisite to a man's "exaltation" -- i.e., becoming a god who rules over his own planet after death. As a god, he would have spirit children through intercourse with his goddess wife and populate his planet.

Joseph Smith was killed while trying to break out of a Missouri jail. Brigham Young took his followers to unpopulated Utah.

Since Utah couldn't become a state while polygamy was being practiced, the President of the Mormons (the top guy) had a revelation that polygamy would be practiced in heaven. Utah reluctantly outlawed polygamy and became a state. It's still practiced.

I live in Arizona, where polygamy is practiced on the Utah border. Young girls are forced to marry older men, who may have as many wives as they wish. It's a very ugly situation, supported by taxpayers, since most of the plural wives live on welfare.

DNA studies have been done that prove American Indians are Mongoloid, not Semetic. Archaeology has been done all over the U.S. and no evidence of events in the BOM, including huge battles with many dead bodies and equipment, have ever been found.

Well, enough said.

Budge said Mormonism and Catholicism have many parallels, which proves she knows as much about Mormonism as she does about Catholicism -- NADA. ZIP.

Likos

References:

[i]Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, Doctrine & Covenants[/i]
[i]No Man Knows My History, the Life of Joseph Smith[/i], by Fawn Brodie, Alfred A. Knopf
[i]Gopspel Principles,[/i] published by the LDS Church, Salt Lake City

Edited May 1, 2007 by Katholikos

[carrdero]

[quote name='jckinsman' post='1261525' date='May 1 2007, 02:29 AM']Thank you! The information is helpful! Its just a very difficult, heartbreaking situation! I'm glad Budge you can still find it in your heart to slam the catholic church yet once again! I hope that someday,you can find it in your heart to forgive the catholic church for whatever it did to you! I really would like to know what that is? You fill the threads with hate for the catholic church! I'am new to PM budge,so for awhile I just sat and read what you wrote! You are one angry,hurt person! I am sorry! I typed up alot,(and backspaced it all) just now, and I just thought to myself, Why am I doing this? I think Budge you should ask yourself the same thing!? It is clear you do not want to know the truth,......so be it Budge,........If you have it, good for you! The Lord in his love and mercy will let you have your sin if thats what you crave. You have free will. He will be here for you WHEN you come back.............a little more humble...and so will your PHAMILY!
Back to the topic! I saw that there was a special on mormonism ,on TV ! Did anyone see it? This is a good thing to know where people are coming from! Its finding the right words that do not compromise my faith, well not underminding the parents! He is saying ,that there are things ,he just doesn't think are right and thing he flat out just doesn't believe. So I listen quietly and pray for the family. I know that they are high up in the order because his Grandfather was a Bishop! Does that mean something? He said he wanted to quit his faith. Almost as if he had a club membership there. I told him to be very careful,he is still 15! JC
Hey, also thank you for the play by play I always wanted to know what they did in church![/quote]

Don't forget that Part 2 of that special is on PBS tonight. This episode will most likely highlight the 20th Century perspective of the Mormon religion. From some of the Mormons that I corresponded with, they thought the PBS special was accurately presented but some couldn't help to feel it had an Anti-Mormon slant. I thought it was fair and informative.

Edited May 1, 2007 by carrdero