Headcovering In Mass

[cathoholic_anonymous]

No, this is not another debate on whether women should wear veils during Mass. I am sure you will all be relieved to know that.

It is just that the covering of the head during prayer has come to have real meaning for me personally. On a practical level, it's an aid to meditation. I was in the chapel the other day and I drew my big blue and green shawl up over my head and let it fall in folds down the side of my face. Instantly my field of vision was narrowed - from where I was kneeling I couldn't see anything apart from the tabernacle, the crucifix, and altar. That kept my focus. Recently I have been mulling over the sigificance of the mantilla or chapel veil as a sign of humility. I respond to that symbolism.

I certainly don't believe that it should be compulsory to wear a veil in church and I would never press anybody else to adopt the custom, but I would like to start for my own spiritual reasons. The only problem is that I don't dare.

I am a member of a vibrant and orthodox community of young Catholic students. I have learned so much about this Faith at the chaplaincy - they are all passionate about God and make Catholicism a thing to be lived. But not one of them covers their hair during Mass, so I would feel very out of place.

I have a big lacy black mantilla that I was given as a present quite recently. As nobody else has one, I wouldn't feel comfortable wandering into Mass with it draped over my head in case I distracted people, made them feel inadequate for not wearing one, or made them think I was trying to be 'holier than thou'. Part of the mantilla is about modesty. Is it really modest to adopt this practice when it may cause people to pay more attention to you?

[Aloysius]

Now, as a guy I guess I am far less self-conscious about stuff like this: but in my humble opinion: they'll get over it... if it even really distracts them at all. With all the girls I've heard say the exact same thing, who's to say one of them doesn't have some big mantilla back under the boxes in their closet and are saying "oh, if I wore it, I'd feel out of place"... it's entirely likely, there are lots of girls out there who come to that point where they'd like to do it but would feel uncomfortable.

Do you really think they'd be hung up over it for that long, if at all? just say "it's customary that women may cover their heads in Church but men may not"... I would think that would suffice... if they question you further, just describe what you described here: how it aids your personal devotion.

If a group of people got together to pray the rosary, but not all of them had beads, that wouldn't mean the ones that did have beads were making the ones without beads feel inadequate... at least I hope it wouldn't

[Romans1513]

[quote]Is it really modest to adopt this practice when it may cause people to pay more attention to you?[/quote]

Big question for me right now... I started wearing it at school but just came home for the summer.

But as it is, I don't have time at the moment to go further... I'll stop by later!

[Luthien]

Well, I know that I am humbled when I get funny looks from people for wearing it. I do not wear it to draw attention to myself, so I think you're intention for wearing it would be the best thing to examine.

[goldbug16]

I personally dont think that every woman should [i]have[/i] to wear them, but I rather like them. I dont wear one now, because I dont have one, but I think that I would like to start to wear one soon. :

[Maggyie]

My sister and I each got one for the rare occasions when we visit the local indult parish. She once wore hers to a parish with the normative Mass and got a lot of huffy reactions... it was very out of place, and I guess it really rubbed people the wrong way. They must have gotten the "holier-than-thou" impression Anyway, that was the end of that.

A good solution for those who like to cover their heads but who don't want to draw unpleasant attention is to wear hats. HATS come in about as many glorious shapes and colors as shoes. They are fantastic, and while most don't wear them, nobody will think you are odd for putting on a lovely chapeau.

Edited May 14, 2007 by Maggie

[Romans1513]

Ok... I have been struggling with a very similar issue the past week and a half. I started wearing a veil after Christmas break at school, and its not as weird when I'm there, because for one thing, I'm not the only one. As of quite recently, I'm home, until mid-July. Its been tough. I had so many worries- mainly, would it be too distracting? Would people be upset about it? That would defeat much of the purpose of the veil. Also, would people think I was trying to be "holier-than-thou"? Would other women feel that I think they are wrong in not covering their heads? Would my parents think that I think they raised me wrong or something and now I was going against them? etc. etc. etc. I spent a lot of time browsing around phatmass, actually, looking for old posts, discussions, etc. on the veil.

The day after I got home, I had a meeting with my parish priest, also the Pastoral director at my alma mater, to talk about possibly going to WYD in Australia. When we finished talking about that, I brought up this issue. He told me he did not think it was a bad thing, said he had seen women wear them before (must not be at any of the churches I've ever gone to around here...), warned me that I would get a whole range of reactions, and even mentioned the part about how it never was officially taken out of canon law or whatever. I took this as encouragement. So I wore it last Sunday, and I felt a lot of stares (whether real or imaginary)- I was self-conscious of it the whole time, and I really began to doubt myself. I wore it again this week, and felt much more comfortable, although still out of place. I can't completely gauge the reaction yet, because I haven't heard any comments at all, even from some people closer to me who I expected might ask. But I feel that as the weeks go on, it will become more and more "normal" and people will just get used to it. And while its not, its really humbling and a great sacrifice for me.

I think you need to look at your parish- you know them better than we do- would it be too much of a distraction no matter how long you've worn it? I'm guessing no, it would take some time maybe but thats all. But really, you know best. Or there could be someone else you could ask to see how they think it would go. And I'm sure there would be some positive reactions too. You also have to look at other aspects-most importantly, perhaps, would be you intention, as Luthien said. You need to weigh what you truly believe pleases God, and not other people. Modesty is part of it, but there's other things too, some of which you mentioned- practicality, humility, the symbolism, for the angels, because its in the Bible, etc.

And as Maggie said, you could go with a hat if you feel that would be best.

Hope this made some sense. I'm in a bit of a hurry, I need to get to bed so I can get up early tomorrow.

-Katie

[alicemary]

I think you really must examine your motives for wanting to wear a veil at Mass. Hey, quite frankly, people wear the darndest things to church these days, nothing seems strange. I grew up in an era where you had to wear something when you entered a church. I can't tell you how many times I had to wear a folded up kleenex to Mass because I forgot my mantilla (which we all carried). Hence, I have a real adveresion to covering my head at church. Personally, have not seen many people wearing them locally. Like I said, examine your real motives, and if they are for the greater honor and glory of the Lord, go for it. If for your own vanity, or for dress up, or calling attention to your piety, then forgo them.

[jckinsman]

Here, where I live,the veil is almost never worn. Very rare! Growing up I never really saw it either! I'll bet everyone at the latin mass in downtown seattle does though! I was never raised with it, but I would embrace it If It was somthing I was compelled to do! I would rather see a sea of veils then shorts and tank tops! That's disrespectfu! Veiling your head ,very respectful and steeped in tradition! JC

[cathoholic_anonymous]

Thank you for all the good advice. Last night I decided, after hearing somebody else's sensible take on the matter, not to obsess over it but to just gently slip into the tradition without causing waves. I am going to start covering my head with one of my scarves or shawls during Mass. I nearly always have a shawl of some kind draped round my shoulders, so people are used to seeing me with one. At the beginning of Mass I will unobtrusively draw it up over my head, just as I do when I'm praying privately in chapel.

Once I've got acclimatised to this, I will 'graduate' to my mantilla on Sundays. I don't feel quite ready to dash into church with that on my head yet. I want to explore the custom in more depth first.

[Church Punk]

I think it is a good thing for women to cover their head as a sign of humility and reverance to the Lord.

Just to touch on some of my toughts of focus at Mass and modest dressing, I think we need to work on getting girls to cover the rest of their bodies during mass let alone their heads. As a male, nothing is more distracting than having a half dressed, very attractive woman sitting 2 pews in front of you during Mass. We have to close our eyes for the entirity of mass.

[Sojourner]

great that you've figured it out


now maybe this thread and its companion can die slow, painless deaths before arguing on this topic ensues ...

[Aloysius]

haha would I ever let this thread die a slow painless death? it's a topic that should be discussed.

well, I understand the reasoning, really I do. It's the same reasoning that makes me not want to stay back from communion when I go to church but am in mortal sin... you know, call attention to myself, blah blah blah. it all just amounts to an excuse, and the sooner the ice is broken on this particular issue in the pews at every mass, the better off the faithful will be. that's what I'd see you as doing, not being the drawer-of-attention unto yourself, but breaking the ice on an issue that more and more girls are starting to say "I'd like to start doing that, but would feel weird"

people who give mean looks about it are just being plain sinful, honestly. it's not your attitude that'd be holier than thou, but your essence, because they are just being mean-spirited; they have absolutely no grounds for giving you mean looks about it.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1272889' date='May 14 2007, 07:37 AM']

haha would I ever let this thread die a slow painless death? it's a topic that should be discussed.[/quote]
It's a topic that's been discussed to death ... and I think borders on Catholic v. Catholic debate, at least past discussions on it have devolved into that.

We can all hope this one will maintain a higher level of maturity ...

[homeschoolmom]

Yes. We can hope.

[puellapaschalis]

I was interested to read alicemary's comments about examining one's reasons for covering one's head; the response that my mind came up with was that the reasons behind wanting to do this (or, I suppose, any other act of piety) can be many and varied. Certainly when I began wearing a headcovering in church I had a variety of reasons for doing so, some more honourable than others. Human beings are complex creatures (at least, please tell me I'm not the only one!) and in my experience we only rarely have [i]one[/i] nicely homogeneous set of reasons for anything.

So what if a woman, upon following alicemary's suggestion, searches her own heart and finds mixed answers? I would say be reassured by the good reasons and go for it anyway, praying about it all the while. Sometimes I wonder if the not-so-good reasons I find whilst examining myself aren't actually a kind of Distraction to keep me from doing something essentially good.

In terms of dealing with people's reactions (and there were some - in this country it's really not seen that often at all), I tried to remain who I was. I still grin at my friends if I see them in church, I'll lean over and whisper hello in greeting, I'll hug someone I haven't seen for a while and ask how they're doing just as I had always done before. Despite the ups and downs (and yes, they're there aplenty), wearing a covering is a [i]GOOD[/i] thing in my experience, a step towards Christ. If a woman can recognise that and live and wear a covering joyfully, then the surprise and shock of others will, I believe, quickly transform into acceptance.

PP

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote]Just to touch on some of my toughts of focus at Mass and modest dressing, I think we need to work on getting girls to cover the rest of their bodies during mass let alone their heads. As a male, nothing is more distracting than having a half dressed, very attractive woman sitting 2 pews in front of you during Mass. We have to close our eyes for the entirity of mass.[/quote]

I agree whole-heartedly that the faithful should dress modestly for Mass. By the faithful, I mean men as well as women. No Catholic man should go to church in clothes that would be more suited to the beach either. As a community, I think we should all make an effort with our clothes for Mass. It's the best part of the week.

I never used to think like this. I wasn't aware of the sheer solemnity of the Mass, and when I did visit a Catholic church during my childhood (which happened about twice a year) I saw people wearing shorts and spaghetti straps frequently. In Arab countries the Catholic women dress modestly for Mass, but I just assumed that this was part of the wider Arab culture. It's only over the past few weeks that I've started to see that how you dress can be part of how you worship. (This idea came to me after I found out that Carmelite nuns have a set of special prayers related to their habit as they dress in the morning.) And so I designated one of my skirts as my 'Sunday skirt'. It's ankle-length, very swishy, and a real pain to iron as a result, especially as I'm incredibly clumsy, but going to all that trouble on Saturday evening makes me anticipate the Mass the next day. I treat it as part of my prayer time.

It's been a good thing for me. But dress code is not just a female issue. I think we need to work on getting guys to realise that.

Edited May 14, 2007 by Cathoholic Anonymous

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1272601' date='May 13 2007, 03:56 PM']No, this is not another debate on whether women should wear veils during Mass. I am sure you will all be relieved to know that.[/quote]
yes, well, unfortunately every time one of these threads is created, it's never meant to be a debate, but it always ends that way

[quote name='alicemary' post='1272805' date='May 13 2007, 09:15 PM']Hey, quite frankly, people wear the darndest things to church these days, nothing seems strange.[/quote]
if anyone makes fun of you for wearing a head covering, just point to the nearest half naked girl or guy in shorts and flip flops and ask them why they don't have a problem with that kind of clothing

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1272880' date='May 14 2007, 05:28 AM']now maybe this thread and its companion can die slow, painless deaths before arguing on this topic ensues ...[/quote]
one can only hope in vain

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1272889' date='May 14 2007, 05:37 AM']

haha would I ever let this thread die a slow painless death? it's a topic that should be discussed.

well, I understand the reasoning, really I do. It's the same reasoning that makes me not want to stay back from communion when I go to church but am in mortal sin... you know, call attention to myself, blah blah blah. it all just amounts to an excuse, and the sooner the ice is broken on this particular issue in the pews at every mass, the better off the faithful will be. that's what I'd see you as doing, not being the drawer-of-attention unto yourself, but breaking the ice on an issue that more and more girls are starting to say "I'd like to start doing that, but would feel weird"

people who give mean looks about it are just being plain sinful, honestly. it's not your attitude that'd be holier than thou, but your essence, because they are just being mean-spirited; they have absolutely no grounds for giving you mean looks about it.[/quote]
al, i think if anyone wants further enlightenment on this subject, they should go to [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=63947"]THIS THREAD[/url] where you and Jeff discuss this in a historical sense. [b]That[/b] thread was very edifying for me, and i'm sure others.

[Aloysius]

yeah, for the debate one whether it's required go there. we hashed that out fairly thoroughly.

but for the "I want to do it but people will look at me funny" people, this is my advice; purely detached from my opinion that it is required et cetera and simply responding to their desire to do it.

it is the same reasoning I have used in the past when I was afraid to stay back for Holy Communion: people would think I'm trying to be too holier-than-thou... ie, they've assuredly done the same types of sins I have done so they're going to look at me like I'm just being overly-humble about it and I should just lighten up and do what they do; they might feel inadequate about their own spiritual life seeing me abstain from the eucharist if I do no more sins, as far as they know, than them. this happened with my brother once, who asked me why the heck I didn't go up for holy communion. it's the exact same type of thing, it calls attention to yourself, singles you out and highlights you when you're trying to do an act of humility and don't want to be highlighted for it. that doesn't mean you don't do it just because people are going to have that reaction... it seems every woman in the whole Church could be convinced that wearing veils was an aid to their prayers and still no one would wear one, each afraid of the others' reactions. the ice has to break somewhere, if you really think this sacramental is important.