Headcovering In Mass

[philosophette]

I know some Catholics who seem to think that I should be in both hejab and niqaab.

That is interesting that you grew up there. Is your family Saudi? Edited May 16, 2007 by philosobrat

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='alicemary' post='1274252' date='May 15 2007, 03:58 PM']Woman and girls took to carrying mantilla in their pocketbooks. And they certainly looked ratty and terrible after time. They had smaller ones, that do look like doilies that were easier to carry.[/quote]

I carry my mantilla in my purse at all times, and have been doing so for years. I keep it in a little ziplock bag folded up, or a little zipper compartment in my purse. It has never started looking ratty or terrible...

[puellapaschalis]

AFAIK, the mantilla vs scarf vs hat thing is a style question. The impression I've always had is that it was a fashion from the Med which kind of got tagged onto "Catholic". Certainly here it's a bit fancy and frilly, but then I'm surrounded by dour Dutchmen
I only wear a mantilla on Big Days. Otherwise it's a scarf tied round my head (behind my neck, not under my chin), and yes, I usually wear it all the time.

PP

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' post='1274487' date='May 15 2007, 06:11 PM']Before it was "what kind of heathen are you?" and now it's "what kind of wacko holy roller are you?"[/quote]
pretty much

btw, my mom wears a hat almost every time she goes to Mass. i'm not sure if it's because of the Bible verse or because she just likes wearing hats

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='alicemary' post='1274463' date='May 15 2007, 09:39 PM']maybe I am just different, but what covers my head does not equate what is in my heart. It certainly is not my priority to worry about externals in this point in my life. I do some of my best praying in my back yard, in a small area I have set aside for devotion. My church is locked most days, and never opened at night. If someone has the audocity to mandate my wearing a tattered kleenex on my head to express devotion, then guess what, I would rather pray in my back yard.[/quote]
I don't see wearing the veil as necessary an "expression of devotion." It's easy to see it as something of a political statement these days, since it is rare to go to an average Novus Ordo parish and see a woman with her head veiled. When a woman does cover her head, it only makes sense to think the worst of her, as if she were doing it to say, "HEY LOOK AT HOW HUMBLE I AM." People are often surprised when I do not look down on others for not covering their heads. Don't get me wrong, I wish all women would cover their heads because all women are beloved daughters of God and ought to guard their glory. I wish women would see that they have something beautiful in them (which is a gift from God) that is worth guarding. But it surprises people when I say I do not think less of a woman who does not wear the veil, I only wish they would realize the gifts God has given them. To me, a veil is not really a sign of humility, as if to draw attention to one's virtue. Rather, the veil is a sign of feminine obedience to the Word of God, along with chastity.

I'll be honest here: few things motivate me more towards chastity than knowing that I wear a white veil on my head every Sunday and I want to live up to that.

[Aloysius]

yes, I do believe a bit of silliness started to erupt which, if followed as if it actually had a point, would absolutely destroy the traditions of the scapular, habits for religious, medals and crucifixes, maybe even followed to its fullest extent all iconography everywhere.

I'll deal with the points though, just to be fair.

first there's pray without ceasing + cover your head while praying

there's all sorts of postures we talk about doing whilst praying-- kneeling, folding your hands, et cetera. Yet if you had to do all of those in your unceasing daily prayer, you'd never be able to do anything. There's a difference between the unceasing prayer you always offer, and the prayer you set aside time for. When you set aside time to pray, you do certain things that you don't do when you're just offering all that you do as a prayer.

then there's I don't care about externals + I'd rather pray in the backyard if they made me cover my head in Church

well, like I said, followed to its logical conclusion this would bring about full iconoclasm and destruction of all ritual; could not one say "I don't feel any deeper devotion when I'm on my knees than when I'm sitting, I might as well sit through the whole mass, since I just don't care about externals as much"... that'd be just as valid an argument... and that could be applied to nearly everything Christians do in liturgy and prayer. what's the difference? someone could not do the sign of the cross because they don't need it as an external, right? throw that out too, then... might as well dismantel all externals except the ones we feel would help us feel the devotions better.

I don't mean to start a debate or nothing; just shoot down what was thought to be points behind the silliness... because they're really not points at all, they're just mild breeds of iconoclasm.

and I've expressed how ridiculous I think the whole "but it's flaunting humility" thing is already in this thread, right? If not, I think it's ridiculous. haha. photosynthesis has a good attitude about it; but in the end it's a small amount if anybody who's really doing it as a holier-than-thou thing. and them exprerssing their opinion that every woman should cover their head does not qualify them as holier-than-thou, by the way.

[cmotherofpirl]

If you are covering you head for the glory of God during Mass, shouldn't you be doing it all the time, like the Amish? After all jewish women didn't do it just for synogogue, they did it all the time. Shouldn't you all go for consistancy at least?

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1279820' date='May 23 2007, 01:18 PM']If you are covering you head for the glory of God during Mass, shouldn't you be doing it all the time, like the Amish? After all jewish women didn't do it just for synogogue, they did it all the time. Shouldn't you all go for consistancy at least?[/quote]
It's funny, I have a Protestant friend who covers her head too. We went to a Life in the Spirit retreat together, and she always covered her head during the talks, while I did not. Then, we would go into the Chapel into the presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, and I would put on my veil. She, however, did not put hers on until 15 minutes later, when the music ministry started singing and people stood up to worship. If I were to attend a service at her church, I would not wear my veil at all because they don't have the Eucharist. A Protestant service is not as sacred as the Mass. A Protestant church building is not as holy as an adoration chapel.

There is a separation between the sacred and the mundane, ordinary avenues of life. Jesus is present in the hearts of His followers, in the words of Scripture, in His priests. But he is truly, literally present in the Eucharist, therefore His presence demands that we do things a little differently. When I go to Mass, I try to wear a nice outfit, especially on Sunday. The rest of the time, however, I wear stuff like sneakers and T-shirts and jeans. It is also perfectly OK for a man to wear a hat. But when he comes into the presence of the Lord, he ought to take off his hat as a sign of respect, the way a gentleman would take off his hat out of respect for a lady. If a woman wants to cover her head all of the time, I don't see a problem with that, just as I would not see a problem if a woman wants to wear fancy dresses every day. But being in the presence of the Eucharist demands a different standard of decorum.

Edited May 23, 2007 by photosynthesis

[jiyoung]

I wear a veil, and for me it's more modesty--guarding your glory, as photosynthesis said. And it's also the fact that it's a way to express reverence. There was also another insight a friend of mine had, who never really understood the veil until he tried thinking about it in the context of the Theology of the Body--he told me something to the effect that I should think of myself as the bride of Christ, and that when I go up to receive communion I am uniting with my beloved and so it should evoke marital imagery. It was easier for him to understand after that because whether I am at adoration or at Mass or whatever (because I wear it whenever I'm in the presence of the Eucharist), I'm making some communion with the Bridegroom, and he associates veils with marriage.

Anyway, though...I agree that because wearing the veil is for me a personal choice, I don't look down on women who don't wear one, and I don't necessarily think that all women should be required to wear one...I'll go with whatever canon law tells me on that subject, but I think that it's nice that it's become such a personal step in faith, and I think that there are few women who actually wear a veil to draw attention to themselves. My experience has been that it's humbling to start to wear the veil, because you're so self-conscious about it and you think everyone is staying at you and all. It's a step that takes a lot of prayer and a lot of trust, and because of that presents a tremendous opportunity for spiritual growth--I was really unsure about wearing the veil when I first started, but it really helped me to develop a better interior life and helped me draw into myself for prayer. There are other things the other girls here mentioned about it that I agree with, too.

It's a sign of reverence, and not wearing it doesn't mean you're not being reverent...it shows reverence and develops reverence by its nature, I think, but because reverence is something in the heart, you can be irreverent while wearing a veil (it just disposes you toward it better, similar to kneeling).

...I think I'm rambling since everyone else has covered it well, so I'll stop here...

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote]There was also another insight a friend of mine had, who never really understood the veil until he tried thinking about it in the context of the Theology of the Body--he told me something to the effect that I should think of myself as the bride of Christ, and that when I go up to receive communion I am uniting with my beloved and so it should evoke marital imagery. It was easier for him to understand after that because whether I am at adoration or at Mass or whatever (because I wear it whenever I'm in the presence of the Eucharist), I'm making some communion with the Bridegroom, and he associates veils with marriage.[/quote]

This is a metaphor I've never quite understood. If uniting with the Bridegroom in the Eucharist makes a Catholic woman the bride of Christ, where does that leave the Catholic men?

[Aloysius]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1279820' date='May 23 2007, 01:18 PM']If you are covering you head for the glory of God during Mass, shouldn't you be doing it all the time, like the Amish? After all jewish women didn't do it just for synogogue, they did it all the time. Shouldn't you all go for consistancy at least?[/quote]
if you wanted to, okay, there's nothing wrong with that... but it does not necessarily flow from the words of scripture or the teaching of the fathers and doctors of the Church who have spoken on the subject that you should do it all the time. there's just nothing inherent to the understanding of the veil as a sacramental used as an aid to prayer which would necessitate its use at all times. I don't understand why you'd have to be consistent? It'd be the same as saying "well, if you're going to kneel to respect Jesus at mass, shouldn't you be kneeling all the time to be consistent?"

St. Paul said to do it when praying... and the whole pray-without-ceasing rule obviously doesn't apply, he's talking about times specifically marked out for prayer and everyone knows it-- there are things that we do when we specifically set aside time for prayer that we do not do in our everyday prayer-without-ceasing.

[jiyoung]

Well, the Church is the bride of Christ, really, but in our bodies the man images Christ and the woman images the Church.