Life Teen

[Akalyte]

I need some clarifcations.. I've kind of disliked lifeteen for a while now. Especially after hearing about the whole dancing around the altar thing. Why does there have to be an altaring of the mass for lifeteen? why not just the normal mass? Does it encourage teens to go to mass dressed in sundays best or shorts and t-shirt? I'm asking because i dont think people should be so careless with the mass and liturgy..

[inDEED]

Kenny - I love you, man.

If you have any *serious* questions about LT and are ready to put aside your [b]mis[/b]conceptions - truly being open to what I, having spent 3 years ministering with LT, have to say - You can call me/e-mail me/message me anytime.

Otherwise, if your intent is simply to take your *incorrect* preconceived notions and, once again - as you've done in the past - beat a dead horse to death AGAIN by slandering the program and pointing fingers of judgment - then I'm done with it.

I know you often read something, hear something, or see something about the faith (especially any element of Charismatic practice) and then immediately come on PM to rip it without thinking twice - so I wanted to give you some options.

[IcePrincessKRS]

I think that it largely depends on the LT leaders. I have seen inappropriate behaviors in LT services, and I have seen others that are perfectly in line with orthodox liturgical norms. LT as a whole isn't a bad thing--just depends on who's running the show in the particular parish.

[Akalyte]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' post='1277276' date='May 19 2007, 01:55 AM']I think that it largely depends on the LT leaders. I have seen inappropriate behaviors in LT services, and I have seen others that are perfectly in line with orthodox liturgical norms. LT as a whole isn't a bad thing--just depends on who's running the show in the particular parish.[/quote]

yeah im not saying it bad as a whole, but I tend to not like anything that is lax and careless with the liturgy. If there are orthodox elements in it. That's cool.

[Akalyte]

[quote name='inDEED' post='1277270' date='May 19 2007, 01:08 AM']Kenny - I love you, man.

If you have any *serious* questions about LT and are ready to put aside your [b]mis[/b]conceptions - truly being open to what I, having spent 3 years ministering with LT, have to say - You can call me/e-mail me/message me anytime.

Otherwise, if your intent is simply to take your *incorrect* preconceived notions and, once again - as you've done in the past - beat a dead horse to death AGAIN by slandering the program and pointing fingers of judgment - then I'm done with it.

I know you often read something, hear something, or see something about the faith (especially any element of Charismatic practice) and then immediately come on PM to rip it without thinking twice - so I wanted to give you some options.[/quote]

dude why you so defensive? i'm against elements in lifeteen or any movement in the church that thinks they can play "legos" with the liturgy that's all. So I ask you these questions, are they really orthodox and do they really care about staying true the to Rubrics of the mass and do they encourage teens to dress respectfully and act respectfully?.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Akalyte' post='1277298' date='May 19 2007, 08:00 AM']dude why you so defensive? i'm against elements in lifeteen or any movement in the church that thinks they can play "legos" with the liturgy that's all. So I ask you these questions, are they really orthodox and do they really care about staying true the to Rubrics of the mass and do they encourage teens to dress respectfully and act respectfully?.[/quote]

Why so defensive? Because we've done this before... do a search... there are probably dozens of threads on Lifeteen.

[Moneybags]

[quote name='Akalyte' post='1277296' date='May 19 2007, 07:56 AM']yeah im not saying it bad as a whole, but I tend to not like anything that is lax and careless with the liturgy. If there are orthodox elements in it. That's cool.[/quote]

You are correct. Many liturgical abuses take place like dancing around the altar and I find that the teens have little actual Catholic knowledge of the Faith plus they dress in very a irreverent manner. I try to avoid them like the plague.

[Phoenix Reborn]

What exactly is 'Lifeteen'?

Edited May 19, 2007 by Phoenix Reborn

[Seven77]

The program and abuses are two different things. Movements are not their abuses. We should and must oppose the abuses but not the whole movements themselves, approved by Holy Mother Church.

Ask Mother Mary what she thinks.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='inDEED' post='1277270' date='May 18 2007, 11:08 PM']Kenny - I love you, man.

If you have any *serious* questions about LT and are ready to put aside your [b]mis[/b]conceptions - truly being open to what I, having spent 3 years ministering with LT, have to say - You can call me/e-mail me/message me anytime.

Otherwise, if your intent is simply to take your *incorrect* preconceived notions and, once again - as you've done in the past - beat a dead horse to death AGAIN by slandering the program and pointing fingers of judgment - then I'm done with it.

I know you often read something, hear something, or see something about the faith (especially any element of Charismatic practice) and then immediately come on PM to rip it without thinking twice - so I wanted to give you some options.[/quote]
agreed. i know that lifeteen did have some abuses in the past, but they have worked on correcting them. give them a chance and put aside your preconceived notions about them.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Akalyte' post='1277298' date='May 19 2007, 06:00 AM']dude why you so defensive? i'm against elements in lifeteen or any movement in the church that thinks they can play "legos" with the liturgy that's all. So I ask you these questions, are they really orthodox and do they really care about staying true the to Rubrics of the mass and do they encourage teens to dress respectfully and act respectfully?.[/quote]
because this is a subject that has been brought up again and again and again.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Seven77' post='1277356' date='May 19 2007, 09:03 AM']The program and abuses are two different things. Movements are not their abuses. We should and must oppose the abuses but not the whole movements themselves, approved by Holy Mother Church.

Ask Mother Mary what she thinks.[/quote]
yup!

[kujo]

[quote name='Akalyte' post='1277134' date='May 18 2007, 11:02 PM']I need some clarifcations.. I've kind of disliked lifeteen for a while now. Especially after hearing about the whole dancing around the altar thing. Why does there have to be an altaring of the mass for lifeteen? why not just the normal mass? Does it encourage teens to go to mass dressed in sundays best or shorts and t-shirt? I'm asking because i dont think people should be so careless with the mass and liturgy..[/quote]

As of 2003, per LIFE TEEN Inc., the teens are NOT allowed to gather (not DANCE) around the altar during the consecration. There's never been a mandate that you must gather around the altar, it was just a tradition. But Fr. Dale Fushek, founder of LIFE TEEN, and the other higher-ups decided that it was inappropriate and, thus, have banned it.

The mass is NOT alterred. It's the same mass. The difference is the music may be a bit more contemporary sounding, the homily may be tailored more towards the lives of the teens, and the teens may participate in the various roles in the mass such as Eucharistic Ministering (if they are 18 or over), lectoring, ushering, etc. This is why the mass is called a "teen" mass....because the teens take an active role in the mass.

And yes, LIFE TEEN encourages looking appropriate for mass; however, they do not make recommendations or mandates on attire, instead leaving it to the Youth Ministers to enforce. Do people show up in shorts and t-shirts? Yeah. Do people show up in jeans and polo shirts? Yeah. Do people show up in khaki's and a button down shirt? Yeah. It's about the personal dispositions of the teens and their families who attend the mass. But, overall, it's an issue of being pastoral...is it more important that the teens are in a suit or that they are comfortable and at ease during worship?

I'd be happy to answer any other questions you've got.

Edited May 19, 2007 by kujo

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='inDEED' post='1277270' date='May 18 2007, 11:08 PM']Kenny - I love you, man.

If you have any *serious* questions about LT and are ready to put aside your [b]mis[/b]conceptions - truly being open to what I, having spent 3 years ministering with LT, have to say - You can call me/e-mail me/message me anytime.

Otherwise, if your intent is simply to take your *incorrect* preconceived notions and, once again - as you've done in the past - beat a dead horse to death AGAIN by slandering the program and pointing fingers of judgment - then I'm done with it.

I know you often read something, hear something, or see something about the faith (especially any element of Charismatic practice) and then immediately come on PM to rip it without thinking twice - so I wanted to give you some options.[/quote]

woah you just got protestant-alized

anywho, i think life teen is a great movement and should be supported. i do however feel they need even *more* support to make improvements and make corrections to those abuses that many of us see. i understand these are isolated incidents and not inline with LT, so perhaps there needs to be more action taken to discipline them but not enough support/funds to do so. LT brings about many fruits and there are countless teens that display a love for our Lord that rivals and even shames the rest of us. we need to embrace them, even though it may not be perfect, it's all we got for now.

remember this is the case with any large community/movement/program, so we shouldn't really be surprised since these are teens.

as far as the irreverence.. i don't know. on the one hand, it is the sacred liturgy. on the other hand, it brings many teens. is this a valid tradeoff? initially i say no. but perhaps somehow we can make a compromise. maybe they can include regular talks on reverence, modesty, chastity, etc. maybe they can start to more actively encourage regulars to dress appropriately, but allow newcomers time to grow in their faith and knowledge?

i for one like to dress up and wear a tie for mass and prefer traditional latin, but i know not everyone is like me. remember even JP2 made a compromise with the discipline of celibant priests with the ordination of married Anglicans, in order that we allow people to return home to the church. as appauling as it seems to us in the west, an open mind is needed to see the situation in the eyes of God.

for the LT leaders, good job and keep persevering. we appreciate all your work, but if possible, perhaps reverence can be nudged up the priority scale. we know the church is slow, so in due time.. in due time.

[kujo]

[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1277393' date='May 19 2007, 01:13 PM']as far as the irreverence.. i don't know. on the one hand, it is the sacred liturgy. on the other hand, it brings many teens. is this a valid tradeoff? initially i say no. but perhaps somehow we can make a compromise. maybe they can include regular talks on reverence, modesty, chastity, etc. maybe they can start to more actively encourage regulars to dress appropriately, but allow newcomers time to grow in their faith and knowledge?

for the LT leaders, good job and keep persevering. we appreciate all your work, but if possible, perhaps reverence can be nudged up the priority scale. we know the church is slow, so in due time.. in due time. [/quote]

Irreverance is an issue that needs to be dealt with, I agree. But it isn't because LT is systemically irreverant, but, rather, reverance isn't the normal way in which a teen goes about their day. They walk and talk and laugh and joke and are goofy and stuff. The sort of restrained piety that is required in Church, in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament, while praying the rosary....this attitude is not natural for them in the sense that they probably aren't quiet all day. So the Youth Minister needs to lovingly urge his flock to quiet themselves, to come to *know* the sacredness of the liturgy and the Sacraments. It takes time, and there will always be some people who step out of bounds. But the YM and the volunteers need to jump on these things and lovingly-admonish the teens, showing them the error of their ways and then showing them the right thing to do.

Modesty and chastity...yeah those are always gonna be an issue these days. And, again, it's something that the YM and volunteers need to be on top of. LT has many nights on these issues. But it's an issue of accountability. We need to encourage *THE TEENS* to not only be modest and chaste themselves, but to hold their brothers and sisters accountable for their actions and attire. That's what we do at my program. We've paired the teens up with a member of their same sex and charged them with being responsible for each other. They have to meet weekly and talk about everything in this arena. But, foremost, they have to be able to keep each other in check. It's borne much fruit from what we can see.

[johnnydigit]

speaking of the Blessed Sacrament, i was asked to chaperone an LT event at six flags magic mountain. it was my first time at an LT event and i had a fun day. when it came time to load up the auditorium for mass, at least half of the park patrons were catholic teens entering the auditorium, and onlookers were very intrigued at what was going on. upon entering, i encountered 3000+ crazy loud, laughing, joking, yelling, hormonally challenged balls of energy, but when the Blessed Sacrament came out, 3000+ teens fell to their knees, and there was dead silence for at least 20min. i was very proud, very touched, and very impressed.

now i was not entirely comfortable with portions of the mass, but i was easily able to let it go in light of the fruits that came about. in no way am i condoning anything sacrilege or detrimental, but i do feel that compromising to foster growth is very important.

[kujo]

[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1277407' date='May 19 2007, 01:44 PM']speaking of the Blessed Sacrament, i was asked to chaperone an LT event at six flags magic mountain. it was my first time at an LT event and i had a fun day. when it came time to load up the auditorium for mass, at least half of the park patrons were catholic teens entering the auditorium, and onlookers were very intrigued at what was going on. upon entering, i encountered 3000+ crazy loud, laughing, joking, yelling, hormonally challenged balls of energy, but when the Blessed Sacrament came out, 3000+ teens fell to their knees, and there was dead silence for at least 20min. i was very proud, very touched, and very impressed.

now i was not entirely comfortable with portions of the mass, but i was easily able to let it go in light of the fruits that came about. in no way am i condoning anything sacrilege or detrimental, but i do feel that compromising to foster growth is very important.[/quote]

Amen. LIFE TEEN is really really really good about centering all things around the Eucharist. This is perhaps it's strongest point, encouraging the teens to attend daily mass, to make time during their week to attend some sort of Eucharistic adoration, to read the writings of the Church father's on the Eucharist....

Amen, brother.

[Akalyte]

ok see that's all I wanted. So they have tried to cut down on the liberality. Thanks be to God. Just because teens act likes teens it doesnt mean reverance and respect doesnt apply to them..Ya know I just think people need to be a little more careful with the liturgy. That's what bothered me. As long as they are not gathering and dancing around the altar any more i'm cool.

[Pontifex]

[quote name='kujo' post='1277390' date='May 19 2007, 12:04 PM']But, overall, it's an issue of being pastoral...is it more important that the teens are in a suit or that they are comfortable and at ease during worship?[/quote]


Peace be with you. I am not sure if I agree with this statement. It is important to teach teens the importance of dressing accordingly for mass. They seem to be comfortable at the prom, Santa-switch, homecoming, graduation and sports banquets in formal attire. Being pastoral means that we teach the truth in love. As we all know, love makes demands.

The mass is the sacrifice of Jesus Christ made present on the altar. Our reception of communion is our most intimate encounter with Jesus on this side of the veil. Our outward dress needs to communicate the sacredness and importance of the event.

I support Lifeteen, and I do not think they advocate dress either way. However, local groups need to take the intiative to make sure the mass is treated with reverence and respect, regardless which movements label we put on it.

Lifeteen is doing good work and I think it is great that they are making sure they stay within the framework of the Church's standards for the Sacred Liturgy.

Peace. Pontifex.

[kujo]

[quote name='Akalyte' post='1277435' date='May 19 2007, 02:31 PM']ok see that's all I wanted. So they have tried to cut down on the liberality. Thanks be to God. Just because teens act likes teens it doesnt mean reverance and respect doesnt apply to them..Ya know I just think people need to be a little more careful with the liturgy. That's what bothered me. As long as they are not gathering and dancing around the altar any more i'm cool.[/quote]

Yeah. It's a process. During my time in ministry, I've observed that, when people begin to fall in love with the Lord, reverance and modesty come with time. It's natural...when you look at the beauty and sacred face of Our Lord, the response is natural, right?