Knowing The Apostles Creed

[Hirsap]

Discuss.

I ask this in order to clarify, in a way. In my Missal it says that Catholics are bound to know the Our Father, Hail Mary, and Apostles Creed (maybe Glory Be as well) under pain of mortal sin.

Of course, neglect towards not knowing the substance of the Faith would indeed be seriously sinful (the substance of the faith being outlined in the Apostles Creed), but would not knowing the Apostles Creed itself be seriously sinful?

[Groo the Wanderer]

Never heard of that before. What missal? What date? Published by whom?

I don't see anything in the CCC that states this, but I could be mistaken. Methinks the CCC is a magisterial document, whereas a missal/missalette is not. hmm....

[GodChaser]

[quote name='Hirsap' post='1280295' date='May 24 2007, 01:09 AM']Discuss.

I ask this in order to clarify, in a way. In my Missal it says that Catholics are bound to know the Our Father, Hail Mary, and Apostles Creed (maybe Glory Be as well) under pain of mortal sin.

Of course, neglect towards not knowing the substance of the Faith would indeed be seriously sinful (the substance of the faith being outlined in the Apostles Creed), but would not knowing the Apostles Creed itself be seriously sinful?[/quote]
I don't know the Apostles Creed, but then, I'm not Catholic.

I guess that is a mortal sin.

Pour GodChaser is going to hell yet again.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' post='1280762' date='May 24 2007, 06:36 PM']Never heard of that before. What missal? What date? Published by whom?

I don't see anything in the CCC that states this, but I could be mistaken. Methinks the CCC is a magisterial document, whereas a missal/missalette is not. hmm....[/quote]

Methinks that the CCC does not contain each and every thing about the Catholic Faith in it, even if it does contain many things.

Edited May 25, 2007 by StThomasMore

[Katholikos]

I've seen many examinations of conscience over the years I've been a Catholic. I've never seen one that listed not knowing the Apostles Creed as a mortal sin, have you?

The Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed (from A.D. 325, 381) is recited every Sunday at the Holy Mass. It might well be a sin not to know that one!

Likos

[Katholikos]

[quote name='GodChaser' post='1280877' date='May 24 2007, 09:11 PM']I don't know the Apostles Creed, but then, I'm not Catholic.

I guess that is a mortal sin.

Pour GodChaser is going to hell yet again. [/quote]

The Church, which speaks for Christ (Luke 10:16), legislates only for its own members. If you're an ex-Catholic, however, you should worry. "Hence, they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it [u]or to remain in it[/u]. CCC 846 (underscore added)

Praying for your conversion,

Likos

[GodChaser]

Then let God be the judge between you and me.

I know I am innocent of anything you're accusing me off.

[uruviel]

I know nothing about this, but when thinking about it I would think that, you must BELIEVE all of the articles, or at least be aware of them. Those are facts about your faith basically, that EVERY Catholic MUST know. Whether you have them memorized in a prayer would seem irrelevant to me.

Edited May 25, 2007 by uruviel

[Norseman82]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1280879' date='May 24 2007, 09:13 PM']Methinks that the CCC does not contain each and every thing about the Catholic Faith in it, even if it does contain many things.[/quote]

And thank you for being around to "fill the gap" where the Church magisterium has been negligent...

[Katholikos]

[quote name='GodChaser' post='1280954' date='May 24 2007, 10:23 PM']Then let God be the judge between you and me.

I know I am innocent of anything you're accusing me off.[/quote]

Did you see your name mentioned in any of these posts concerning Church teaching or doctrine?

Since you are personalizing these things, perhaps your guilty conscience is trying to tell you something. Listen up.

Likos

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Hirsap' post='1280295' date='May 24 2007, 01:09 AM']Discuss.

I ask this in order to clarify, in a way. In my Missal it says that Catholics are bound to know the Our Father, Hail Mary, and Apostles Creed (maybe Glory Be as well) under pain of mortal sin.

Of course, neglect towards not knowing the substance of the Faith would indeed be seriously sinful (the substance of the faith being outlined in the Apostles Creed), but would not knowing the Apostles Creed itself be seriously sinful?[/quote]

This is akin to stating, "you believe something, but you don't know what you believe."

The Apostles' Creed, in conjunction with the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed, is the basic, fundamental statement of the Christian faith. I'm not sure that it's necessarily "sinful" not to know it but how can one claim to be a Christian and [i]not[/i] know it? For example, my oldest child learned it, along with the Glory Be and Hail Mary, in CCD during the year of his First Communion. I believe that he learned the Our Father the prior year. These are the very touchstones of our Faith.

[GodChaser]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1281239' date='May 25 2007, 11:20 AM']Did you see your name mentioned in any of these posts concerning Church teaching or doctrine?

Since you are personalizing these things, perhaps your guilty conscience is trying to tell you something. Listen up.

Likos[/quote]
Sorry, no guilty conciousness friend.



You give me the giggles!

I'm not guility of anything you are accusing me of. Before you make judgements my friend, remind yourself when you point a finger, three fingers are pointing back at you.

Did not Jesus say, let the first who lived his life without sin cast the first stone.

Did not Jesus say, if they use his name to overcome the enemy, they are with the apostles.

Did not Jesus say, consider the plank in your own eye before you remove the smote in your brothers eye.

Did not Jesus say, judge not, lest ye be judged with the same judgement you judge with.

I discourge this kind of debate with me, because I do not want my lord Jesus Christ to judge between us Likos. I do not wish this between me and any person in the world. But if you continue your, if you were once Catholic (I went to 2 or 3 services) and now you're not and you're going to go to hell, then the Lord is going to intervene on my behalf - and you won't like what happens.

[Katholikos]

God Chaser,

Catholics do not claim to know who is going to hell, who is in hell, or who will be going to hell in the future. You're taking offense where none was given. If you were not Catholic (I had understood you to say you were) that paragraph does not apply to you. I didn't say you were, I said IF you were. Please reread my post. You have read yourself into comments that have been made on this forum, but no one has accused you of anything. You were not even mentioned.

BTW, this is the Debate Forum.

Write to me privately if you wish.

j.jaydamien@yahoo.com

Chill out, will ya huh? May the peace of Christ be with you, now and always.

Likos

Edited May 26, 2007 by Katholikos

[Apotheoun]

Eastern Christians don't really use the Apostles Creed.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1281851' date='May 26 2007, 05:46 PM']Eastern Christians don't really use the Apostles Creed.[/quote]

The Eastern Catholic equivalent to the Apostles' Creed the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed which the Latins rarely use outside of Mass on Sundays and great feasts.

[Mercy me]

I have been to non-Catholic churches that use the Apostles Creed.

[Apotheoun]

The Apostles Creed and the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed are not "equivalents." The latter was decreed by the Second Ecumenical Council, while the former was not.

Besides, Arians would be willing to recite the Apostles Creed, but they would never agree to recite the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Mercy me' post='1281890' date='May 26 2007, 06:02 PM']I have been to non-Catholic churches that use the Apostles Creed.[/quote]
Protestant Churches often use the Apostles Creed, but Eastern Churches (both Orthodox and Catholic) do not.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1281892' date='May 26 2007, 07:04 PM']The Apostles Creed and the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed are not "equivalents." The latter was decreed by the Second Ecumenical Council, while the former was not.

Besides, Arians would be willing to recite the Apostles Creed, but they would never agree to recite the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed.

[/quote]

The Apostles' Creed is just as authoritative as the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed because it was written by the Apostles. The Catechism of the Council of Trent says thus about the Apostles' Creed:

[quote][b]The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Part I:[/b]
The Creed

Now the chief truths which Christians ought to hold are those which the holy Apostles, the leaders and teachers of the faith, inspired by the Holy Ghost' have divided into the twelve Articles of the Creed. For having received a command from the Lord to go forth into the whole world, as His ambassadors, and preach the Gospel to every creature, they thought it advisable to draw up a formula of Christian faith, that all might think and speak the same thing, and that among those whom they should have called to the unity of the faith no schisms would exist, but that they should be perfect in the same mind, and in the same judgment.

This profession of Christian faith and hope, drawn up by themselves, the Apostles called a symbol; either because it was made up of various parts, each of which was contributed by an Apostle, or because by it, as by a common sign and watchword, they might easily distinguish deserters from the faith and false brethren unawares brought in, adulterating the word of God, from those who had truly bound themselves by oath to serve under the banner of Christ.
[url="http://www.cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/trent/tcreed00.htm"]http://www.cin.org/users/james/ebooks/mast...nt/tcreed00.htm[/url][/quote]

And, unless you have some citation of an Arian saying the Apostles' Creed, I do not think that they would say it seeing as they deny that the Holy Ghost is a Person.

Edited May 27, 2007 by StThomasMore

[Apotheoun]

StThomasMore,

It may be as authoritative to you, but it is not to me.

May God bless you.