Do You Support World Government?

[Budge]

Your Popes do and did...

{I don't}

From TIME magazine in 1965!

[quote]
How is God's design to be known? In answer, Pope John turned to a cherished concept of Catholic philosophy: natural law—man's instinctive but God-given knowledge of right and wrong. It is the law of nature, he argued, that man has the right to life, education, private property and has the duty to cooperate with others in building an orderly world. [u][b]Today, said the Pope, the moral order demanded by natural law also requires a supranational public authority—a world government.[/u][/b][/quote]

[url="http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,833488,00.html"]THE LASTING VISION OF POPE JOHN-_TIME MAG[/url]

[Didymus]

now why isn't that portion quoted? there are several other quotes in the article, but those seem like their own words. And though I have not read Pacem in Terris yet myself, I'll bet it's another case, just like with Benedict's Sacramentum Caritatis, in which the secular media takes one little portion and twists it out of context instead of actually reading the document in its entirety. I'm curious now to actually read this. I'd like to see how jacked up the media has represented it.

Here's Pacem in Terris:

[url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_xxiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_j-xxiii_enc_11041963_pacem_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_xxi...3_pacem_en.html[/url]

[goldenchild17]

Popes before Vatican II condemned a world government, and so do I.

[Archaeology cat]

Thanks for posting that, Didymus. I haven't read through all of it yet, but a couple of portions caught my eye. It seems to me that he is talking more about how, ideally, there should be a community of all mankind. As social beings, we need structure, a government, as it were, and this structure should serve the people's needs. Especially note that last quote,from Pope Pius XII.


[quote]Order in Human Beings

4. And yet there is a disunity among individuals and among nations which is in striking contrast to this perfect order in the universe. One would think that the relationships that bind men together could only be governed by force.

5. But the world's Creator has stamped man's inmost being with an order revealed to man by his conscience; and his conscience insists on his preserving it. Men "show the work of the law written in their hearts. Their conscience bears witness to them." (5) And how could it be otherwise? All created being reflects the infinite wisdom of God. It reflects it all the more clearly, the higher it stands in the scale of perfection. (6)

6. But the mischief is often caused by erroneous opinions. Many people think that the laws which govern man's relations with the State are the same as those which regulate the blind, elemental forces of the universe. But it is not so; the laws which govern men are quite different. The Father of the universe has inscribed them in man's nature, and that is where we must look for them; there and nowhere else.

7. These laws clearly indicate how a man must behave toward his fellows in society, and how the mutual relationships between the members of a State and its officials are to be conducted. They show too what principles must govern the relations between States; and finally, what should be the relations between individuals or States on the one hand, and the world-wide community of nations on the other. Men's common interests make it imperative that at long last a world-wide community of nations be established. [/quote][quote]Hence, to quote Pope Pius XII, "The absolute order of living beings, and the very purpose of man—an autonomous being, the subject of duties and inviolable rights, and the origin and purpose of human society—have a direct bearing upon the State as a necessary community endowed with authority. Divest it of this authority, and it is nothing, it is lifeless.... But right reason, and above all Christian faith, make it clear that such an order can have no other origin but in God, a personal God, our Creator. Hence it is from Him that State officials derive their dignity, for they share to some extent in the authority of God Himself." (31)[/quote]

[Budge]

[quote]Popes before Vatican II condemned a world government, and so do I.[/quote]

Hmm intersting.

Can you quote one here?

[Katholikos]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1281616' date='May 26 2007, 10:13 AM']Popes before Vatican II condemned a world government, and so do I.[/quote]

Popes before Vatican II condemned a world gvt, and Popes after Vatican II support it?

Izzat what you're implying?

[Groo the Wanderer]

Budge is back from her latest 'vacation'...and staying true to form. Quotes taken out of context abound.


Welcome back sister!

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1281634' date='May 26 2007, 09:47 AM']Popes before Vatican II condemned a world gvt, and Popes after Vatican II support it?

Izzat what you're implying?[/quote]

I was just agreeing with her in saying that recent popes do seem to. But was clarifying for her by pointing out that this wasn't always the case. I suppose you could say I was implying that, but didn't mean anything malicious by it.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1281616' date='May 26 2007, 09:13 AM']Popes before Vatican II condemned a world government, and so do I.[/quote]

Can you back that up with a number from Denzinger or with a reference to a preconciliar authoritative document?

Edited May 26, 2007 by StThomasMore

[Didymus]

while we're talking about what the popes before VII taught why don't we address this:

[quote name='Budge' post='1281595' date='May 26 2007, 09:36 AM']Your Popes [i]do[/i] and did...[/quote]emphasis added

You mention what you believe John XXIII taught. But you specifically bring up current times as well, then didn't say anything about John Paul II or Benedict XVI.

[Budge]

They both promote the United Nations--world government via that organization.

Ive done several threads on that.

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='Budge' post='1281792' date='May 26 2007, 03:25 PM']They both promote the United Nations--world government via that organization.

Ive done several threads on that.[/quote]


Yeppers. and you fared rather poorly on each, as I recall. So why do you bring it back up again? Poor dead horse....


The UN as a governmental agency suxors. Impotent, incompetant, irrelevant, corrupt. But some of the organizations that sprang from it are of use...UNICEF for example.

The idea of what the UN is SUPPOSED to be is a noble one. Who would not like to see real dialogue amongst peace-loving nations? unfortunately, it has become a Bash-America club. Pooey on it. Either revamp the charter and fix it or start over...

1. kick France off the permanent sec council membership
2. ban all terrorist states from all committees period
3. ban all states guilty of human rights abuses and especially genocide from all committees
4. quit imposing liberal carp like birth control, gay activism, and legalisation of drugs and prostitution on the 'civilized' states
5. pay all those parking tickets!

[Paladin D]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' post='1282000' date='May 27 2007, 01:13 AM']The UN as a governmental agency suxors.[/quote]


Haha, suxors. Are you a gamer by any chance?

Edited May 27, 2007 by Paladin D

[Groo the Wanderer]

guilty as charged....

[FatherG]

Budge,
You spend so much time and energy in pursuit of Satan, is it any surprise you're immersed in falsehoods? I encourage you to pursue Christ and His Church as earnestly as you have Satan.

[Budge]

Why would I join a church that promotes the UN, one of the world's most godless, evil organizations on the planet.

When I was UU, the UU used to have flags of the UN in its sanctuaries.

No thanks!
[quote]Unconcerned about the overwhelming evidence of the U.N.’s evil agenda — which even concerned Protestant commentators have remarked over and over again — the Vatican’s former observer to the United Nations, Archbishop Renato Martino, at a recent conference in New York City to commemorate the 40th anniversary of John XXIII’s encyclical Pacem in terris, argued "that the U.N. should have greater power." (CWNews, October 1[/quote]

I already have Christ, which is why I dont abide by this nonsense.

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='Budge' post='1283384' date='May 29 2007, 12:01 PM']Why would I join a church that promotes the UN, one of the world's most godless, evil organizations on the planet.

When I was UU, the UU used to have flags of the UN in its sanctuaries.

No thanks!
I already have Christ, which is why I dont abide by this nonsense.[/quote]

Why would you join a church that rejects the teachings of Christ, passed down through the ages by the successors of St Peter and the Apostles? Please see John 21:25....

Never seen a UN flag in a Catholic Church, myself, btw...

[Guest T-Bone]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' post='1283572' date='May 29 2007, 02:20 PM']Never seen a UN flag in a Catholic Church, myself, btw...[/quote]

But you don't understand. The Catholic Church runs the UU. Anything the UU does is done by the Catholic Church by proxy. Haven't you been reading [i]anything[/i] Budge posts?

[Groo the Wanderer]

doh! Forgot about that. Guess I should be expecting a knock on the door from the Jesuits soon to remind me...

[jeffpugh]

And Budge is back with her World Order theories. Oh dear.