Era Might Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 [quote name='Budge' post='1302098' date='Jun 26 2007, 11:51 AM']Yes the Nephilim HAVE everything to do with this.[/quote] The Bible doesn't say the Nephilim were not human, it specifically says that they were men. They were probably the children of the descendants of Cain and Seth. God sent the flood because good and evil (represented in those two lines) had become blurred, not because the Nephilim were not human: [quote]These were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown. --Genesis 6:4[/quote]
Archaeology cat Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 [quote name='Era Might' post='1302138' date='Jun 26 2007, 05:16 PM']The Bible doesn't say the Nephilim were not human, it specifically says that they were men. They were probably the children of the descendants of Cain and Seth. God sent the flood because good and evil (represented in those two lines) had become blurred, not because the Nephilim were not human:[/quote] It's also standard warrior language and idiom from the Near East, also found in Akkadian literature. As for the topic, I agree that chimeras should not be made, however, since they have been created, they do deserve life. They are still mostly human genetically (what is it, like 99% human still, I don't remember), and I would rather give them the benefit of life than killing them.
HollyDolly Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 No,If a person has an implanted pig valve in their heart of course they are human. What is of concern here is the mixing of human and animal dna to produce a weird hybrid. They are really going off the deep end here on this stuff.I am against it. This business of mixing humans and animals reminds me of the story,The Island of Dr.Moreau,which was I believe written by H.G.Wells.It was about a scientist who does this very thing.It was made into a movie twice.The first time starring Charles Laughton as Dr.Moreau,and Bela Lugosi.The second version starred Marlon Brando as Moreau and I think Richard Basehart. They are trying to be like God,who is the ONLY creator of life. God gave all creatures even bugs the ability to reproduce. HE didn't tell man to go beserk and create weird new species. I pray their efforts will lead to failure.
Kirisutodo333 Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 [quote name='Budge' post='1302098' date='Jun 26 2007, 12:51 PM']Yes the Nephilim HAVE everything to do with this. I know most of you here havent studied the Nephilim probably only God-Chaser knows about this stuff... The elephant man was fully a human being, he just had a tumor disorder. His DNA, chromonsones etc were all fully human. [url="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42637"]BOOK THAT TALKS ABOUT NEPHILIM TELLS YOU WHAT THEY ARE:GENETIC ENGINEERING IS PART OF THE PIC[/url] [url="http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=25335"]ANOTHER ARTICLE OF INTEREST[/url][/quote] What Nephilim are you talking about? The half angel-half man Nephilim from the Bible? Or something else? Let's remember not to confuse Chimeras with Nephilims. Please explain to me how man can create a TRUE NEPHILIM. BTW...the Nephilim were the"heroes of the old. Men of renown." Genesis 6:1-4
Era Might Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 Here is the full statement of the Bishops (warning: .pdf file): [url="http://www.linacre.org/Linacre%20Joint%20submission%20on%20Human%20Tissue%20and%20Embryos%20_draft_%20Bill.pdf"]http://www.linacre.org/Linacre%20Joint%20s...aft_%20Bill.pdf[/url]
prose Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 I have a question.... The fact that the embryos are human to begin with and then are injected with animal DNA... Wouldn't that have made them human to begin with? And if this is the case, Budge, are you inferring that man could in some way make them non-human? I understand injecting human DNA into animals is a different story, but in this case, I think the embryos would have to be considered human.
dairygirl4u2c Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 What about a pig with a human heart. Is that a pig or a human? prob a pig. at what point is it not a human, is the question.
jckinsman Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1302275' date='Jun 26 2007, 01:53 PM']What about a pig with a human heart. Is that a pig or a human? prob a pig. at what point is it not a human, is the question.[/quote] I don't even see why this point is valid! What is the need to save a pig(except if your from Peta)except for bacon? This whole thing is disgusting! I can't even think of what nastiness the human race is going to think of next! As for being catholic,I know that the CHURCH will never teach that this is correct in any way! The picture that was back a few is just so sickening,we deserve to be punished! Lord, have mercy on us! Christ, have mercy on us! Lord, have mercy on us! JC
Budge Posted June 26, 2007 Author Posted June 26, 2007 I should have been clearer. These things are made by NEPHILIM-combo of fallen angels and man... combining animal and man They are Rephahim They do not have souls! Isaiah... 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. 17:5 And it shall be as when the harvestman gathereth the corn, and reapeth the ears with his arm; and it shall be as he that gathereth ears [u][b]in the valley of Rephaim.[/b][/u] [b] 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish. 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.[/b] [url="http://www.bibleufo.com/giants2.htm"]LINK[/url] "As in the days of Noah" Thats where we are going.
prose Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 Budge. Seriously, answer my question. Does a human embryo have a soul? Does man remove this soul when he adds DNA? If so, man is capable of removing souls? If not, did the embryo never have a soul to begin with?
Kirisutodo333 Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 [quote name='Budge' post='1302366' date='Jun 26 2007, 05:33 PM']I should have been clearer. These things are made by NEPHILIM-combo of fallen angels and man... combining animal and man They are Rephahim They do not have souls! Isaiah... 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. 17:5 And it shall be as when the harvestman gathereth the corn, and reapeth the ears with his arm; and it shall be as he that gathereth ears [u][b]in the valley of Rephaim.[/b][/u] [b] 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish. 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.[/b] [url="http://www.bibleufo.com/giants2.htm"]LINK[/url] "As in the days of Noah" Thats where we are going.[/quote] careful now. a lot of scholars would disagree that the "sons of god" are not fallen angels. check this link out. [url="http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/nephilim.pdf"]http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/nephilim.pdf[/url] but getting back to the other stuff. so then they're more like wanna-be Nephilim or "acting" like Nephilim by creating Chimeras. Let's not label them as Nephilim. they don't deserve to be. the act of creating a chimera does not make one a Nephilim.
Kirisutodo333 Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 [quote name='Budge' post='1302366' date='Jun 26 2007, 05:33 PM']I should have been clearer. These things are made by NEPHILIM-combo of fallen angels and man... combining animal and man They are Rephahim They do not have souls! Isaiah... 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. 17:5 And it shall be as when the harvestman gathereth the corn, and reapeth the ears with his arm; and it shall be as he that gathereth ears [u][b]in the valley of Rephaim.[/b][/u] [b] 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish. 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.[/b] [url="http://www.bibleufo.com/giants2.htm"]LINK[/url] "As in the days of Noah" Thats where we are going.[/quote] Sorry...i meant "agree" not "disagree" paz
Budge Posted June 26, 2007 Author Posted June 26, 2007 (edited) Dont fall for that Sethite explanation they know teach in most seminaries. The Bible is to be believed. The shame is Catholics generally as a whole are Amillenialists, so they continually get prophecy wrong, a literal dispensationalist reading is what makes any sense of what is happening and squares it with scripture. You need to understand the massive importance of a strange passage in Genesis, Gen 6:4 and what was going on, THEN, and now. When you do, you can understand why these very strange things of our times and world, and fit them seamlessly into scripture. Then the "Watchers" { fallen angels } were messing around with genetic manipulation, both with women, producing Nephilim, who in turn produced Gibborim, and with Chimera's. All you have to do, is to look at ALL THE ART showing human/animal beings back then, to know that in some distant pre-flood past, this actually happened, and it is the seminal genetic memory passed along by Noah and his Sons, post dispersion around the world after the Tower of Bab-El, that you have memorialized. Jesus said then, "[b]AS IT WAS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH....SO SHALL IT BE.."[/b] And pointed to the end of time when the Tribulation was going to be birthed from "pangs, to reality" Your bishops dont have a clue. [url="http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/05_Genetic/050126.animal-human.html"]http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/05_G...imal-human.html[/url] Edited June 27, 2007 by Budge
Socrates Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 [quote name='Budge' post='1302096' date='Jun 26 2007, 10:46 AM']Well thanks for the links, From Vatican From Vancouver bishops: I still find these statements while good they exist to be rather understated...monkeying with this stuff is not only against human dignity but against God, and blasphemy against HIm. I do not see the Biblical content either. Also the Nephilim angle is ignored. These bishops on the original post are still wrong to defend chimeras as human life.[/quote] Oh, the Vatican is evil because because when it condemns making human-animal "chimeras," it fails to mention the Nephilim! Of course . . . And from the post you originally quoted:[quote]The bishops, who believe that life begins at conception,[b]said that they opposed the creation of any embryo solely for research[/b], but they were also anxious to limit the destruction of such life once it had been brought into existence.[/quote] If you think the Church promotes the creation of "chimeras," you obviously have a serious reading comprehension problem. The Church is firmly against such experiments, but is against killing human life already conceived. (And a human being that has been genetically altered is still a human being.)
Socrates Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 [quote name='Budge' post='1302489' date='Jun 26 2007, 06:53 PM']Then the "Watchers" { fallen angels } were messing around with genetic manipulation, both with women, producing Nephilim, who in turn produced Gibborim, and with Chimera's.[/quote] So where in the Bible does it speak of "genetic manipulation" and human-animal "chimeras"? It always cracks me up how Budge rejects the entire record of the first centuries of the Church as the work of "early deceivers," yet is incredibly quick to swallow all kinds of 20th/21st-century hokum concerning "biblical interpretation." [quote]For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine, but, following their own desires, will surround themselves with teachers who tickle their ears. They will stop listening to the truth and will wander off to fables.[/quote](2 Tim. 4:3-4)
cathoholic Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 [font="Century Gothic"]Let's keep praying[/font]
jeffpugh Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 [quote name='cathoholic' post='1302506' date='Jun 26 2007, 09:32 PM'][font="Century Gothic"]Let's keep praying[/font][/quote] Most wise plan.
jckinsman Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 [quote name='Budge' post='1302489' date='Jun 26 2007, 07:53 PM']Dont fall for that Sethite explanation they know teach in most seminaries. The Bible is to be believed. The shame is Catholics generally as a whole are Amillenialists, so they continually get prophecy wrong, a literal dispensationalist reading is what makes any sense of what is happening and squares it with scripture. You need to understand the massive importance of a strange passage in Genesis, Gen 6:4 and what was going on, THEN, and now. When you do, you can understand why these very strange things of our times and world, and fit them seamlessly into scripture. Then the "Watchers" { fallen angels } were messing around with genetic manipulation, both with women, producing Nephilim, who in turn produced Gibborim, and with Chimera's. All you have to do, is to look at ALL THE ART showing human/animal beings back then, to know that in some distant pre-flood past, this actually happened, and it is the seminal genetic memory passed along by Noah and his Sons, post dispersion around the world after the Tower of Bab-El, that you have memorialized. Jesus said then, "[b]AS IT WAS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH....SO SHALL IT BE.."[/b] And pointed to the end of time when the Tribulation was going to be birthed from "pangs, to reality" Your bishops dont have a clue. [url="http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/05_Genetic/050126.animal-human.html"]http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/05_G...imal-human.html[/url][/quote] I'm so thankful after 2000+ years that someone got it right! It's about time! If it wasn't for the protestants where would WE catholics be? Maybe even funding a post world tower of Babel,...once again,eh?...........this is totally amazing to me!
abercius24 Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 I would warn posters here to avoid some of the language and references being used by others. "Chimera" is a language-ploy geared to help people see these embryos as less than human -- monsterous at best. The same people that put out this language are the same who refer to a baby in the womb as a "fetus." The embryos spoken of here are very young human beings, conceived from human egg and sperm, later genetically altered with animal DNA. Imagine using similar references for the homeless people who have had scientific experiments performed on them. Should we call a homeless man "a Cyborg" after he has had his arm cut off and replaced with a prosthetic limb? These are human beings who have been severely abused by society. Let's not disrespect them further. As well, to tie these embryos to the Nephalim in the Bible is to participate in pseudo-biblical hyper-drama. People who would do so may commit the same sin as Nimrod at the Tower of Babel -- they seek to make a name for themselves apart from God. This seems to be a very popular thing these days with false "religious" leaders who make a ton of money selling books and speaking engagements about anything that can scare our money into their pockets. We live in troubled times, no doubt, but to blow these things out of proportion is only to confuse the issues. It may be fun to get everyone frightened and hysterical, but we'll end up with no credibility when it comes time for each of us to speak out against these atrocities. Let's start with good solid reasoning and work from there.
abercius24 Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 (edited) Deleting duplicate post... Edited June 27, 2007 by abercius24
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