Am I The Only One

[Sojourner]

[quote name='scardella' post='1317017' date='Jul 7 2007, 05:37 PM']who could for the most part care less about the motu proprio?

I mean, I've always found it difficult to follow the Tridentine Mass. I don't see what's so spiffy about it.[/quote]
Actually I would guess that the vast majority of American Catholics are with you on this one.

What we see on PM is not a representative sampling of the U.S. Church.

[Starets]

[quote name='scardella' post='1317017' date='Jul 7 2007, 07:37 PM']who could for the most part care less about the motu proprio?

I mean, I've always found it difficult to follow the Tridentine Mass. I don't see what's so spiffy about it.[/quote]
Ive been to a triddy mass. Yes its a thing of beauty but it seemed like I was just a spectator kneeling and sitting at different times while the priest and the choir did their things. They are both part of the same tradition. I am glad that Pope Benedict made that crystal clear. To read some of the posters hereone would think that the Novus Ordo was some horrid imposition and that everything was perfect until the second vatican council!

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1317083' date='Jul 7 2007, 06:28 PM']Actually I would guess that the vast majority of American Catholics are with you on this one.

What we see on PM is not a representative sampling of the U.S. Church.[/quote]
I doubt most American Catholics have ever assisted at the [i]Forma Extraordinaria[/i].

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Staretz' post='1317114' date='Jul 7 2007, 06:50 PM']Ive been to a triddy mass. Yes its a thing of beauty but it seemed like I was just a spectator kneeling and sitting at different times while the priest and the choir did their things. They are both part of the same tradition. I am glad that Pope Benedict made that crystal clear. To read some of the posters hereone would think that the Novus Ordo was some horrid imposition and that everything was perfect until the second vatican council! [/quote]
Sounds like there was a lack of active participation. IMHO, Archbishop Fulton Sheens little book "[i]The Mass and Calvary[/i]" is a good way to increase one's appreciation of the [i]Forma Extraordinaria[/i]. The theological and spiritual richness of this Liturgy cannot be overstated. I've heard of people who say that Rosary is boring etc. but when one enters deeply into the mysteries of the Holy Rosary and interiorly communes with Christ through Our Lady it is a great spiritual joy. I think full participation in the [i]Forma Extraordinaria[/i] can be compared to this one some level (although it is a partial analogy).
One can "get something" out of the [i]Forma Ordinaria[/i] without a highly interiorized encounter with the essence of the Liturgy. I think that the [i]Forma Extraordinaria[/i] requires a somewhat more contemplative and ascetical spirit to be fully appreciated. These are both things that are very needed in the American Church these days so I hope that the wider use of this Liturgy will encourage such things.

[philosophette]

[quote name='Staretz' post='1317114' date='Jul 7 2007, 07:50 PM']Ive been to a triddy mass. Yes its a thing of beauty but it seemed like I was just a spectator kneeling and sitting at different times while the priest and the choir did their things. They are both part of the same tradition. I am glad that Pope Benedict made that crystal clear. To read some of the posters here one would think that the Novus Ordo was some horrid imposition and that everything was perfect until the second vatican council! [/quote]

I agree completely. I mean, I am happy for those who feel the Trid Liturgy fits them, but it is not for me and when the Novus Ordo is put down as not as good it really irks me.

[philosophette]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1317139' date='Jul 7 2007, 08:01 PM']Sounds like there was a lack of active participation. IMHO, Archbishop Fulton Sheens little book "[i]The Mass and Calvary[/i]" is a good way to increase one's appreciation of the [i]Forma Extraordinaria[/i]. The theological and spiritual richness of this Liturgy cannot be overstated. I've heard of people who say that Rosary is boring etc. but when one enters deeply into the mysteries of the Holy Rosary and interiorly communes with Christ through Our Lady it is a great spiritual joy. I think full participation in the [i]Forma Extraordinaria[/i] can be compared to this one some level (although it is a partial analogy).[/quote]


I have been to ones where people kneel like they are zombies and ones where the people are really "into it". I have had some wonderful spiritually enriching experiences at the Trid Mass, but all in all the Novus Ordo is somewhere that I feel most at home and is also rich.

It is not that one is better than the other - I think that one fits some people better than another and there is nothing wrong with that. Some might disagree, but that is what I think.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='philosobrat' post='1317140' date='Jul 7 2007, 07:02 PM']I agree completely. I mean, I am happy for those who feel the Trid Liturgy fits them, but it is not for me and when the Novus Ordo is put down as not as good it really irks me.[/quote]
The [i]Forma Ordinaria[/i] has a beauty of its own and when celebrated properly is a noble Liturgical form, but there are very real and objective differences between the two forms and I don't think it is appropriate to suggest that they are equal in every respect. The Pope has made clear that the use of the [i]Forma Extraordinaria[/i] has the power to greatly enrich the life of the Church. It is possible to affirm this fact without putting down the [i]Forma Ordinaria[/i]; in fact, to do otherwise would be foreign to the spirit of the Church on this subject.

[Apotheoun]

I am not Roman Catholic, but I think that the use of the older Roman Rite will be a good thing for the Latin Church.

[Luthien]

[quote name='philosobrat' post='1317141' date='Jul 7 2007, 10:04 PM']It is not that one is better than the other - I think that one fits some people better than another and there is nothing wrong with that. Some might disagree, but that is what I think.[/quote]


I think more Traditionalist agree with you than you might think.

Edited July 8, 2007 by Luthien

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='philosobrat' post='1317141' date='Jul 7 2007, 07:04 PM']I have been to ones where people kneel like they are zombies and ones where the people are really "into it". I have had some wonderful spiritually enriching experiences at the Trid Mass, but all in all the Novus Ordo is somewhere that I feel most at home and is also rich.

It is not that one is better than the other - I think that one fits some people better than another and there is nothing wrong with that. Some might disagree, but that is what I think.[/quote]
Don't get me started on my typical "Novus Ordo" experiences. Besides the fact that saying people "kneel like zombies" is extremely nasty and presumptuous (for all you know they were in the seventh mansion), I would say that in a conversation of this kind the Novus Ordo would certainly lose.

[Apotheoun]

Yes. People actually dress up like Zombies at some "Halloween" Masses celebrated according to the revised Roman liturgy.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1317083' date='Jul 7 2007, 06:28 PM']Actually I would guess that the vast majority of American Catholics are with you on this one.

What we see on PM is not a representative sampling of the U.S. Church.[/quote]
The "vast majority of American Catholics " could really care less about their Faith.

Catholic Phatmassers care more about the Faith than the "average pew-sitter," and are also more knowledgable.

And for those on here who "could care less about the Motu Proprio," why are you even wasting time posting about it?
Does the joy of "traditionalists" about this bother you?

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1317170' date='Jul 7 2007, 07:35 PM']The "vast majority of American Catholics " could really care less about their Faith.

Catholic Phatmassers care more about the Faith than the "average pew-sitter," and are also more knowledgable.

And for those on here who "could care less about the Motu Proprio," why are you even wasting time posting about it?
Does the joy of "traditionalists" about this bother you?[/quote]
:applause:

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1317129' date='Jul 7 2007, 06:56 PM']I doubt most American Catholics have ever assisted at the [i]Forma Extraordinaria[/i].[/quote]
well, it's been, what, less than 50 years since it was the ordinary? There are a lot of Baby Boomers, and I'm guessing those who grew up Catholic attended the 1962 form regularly.

[tojo]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1317163' date='Jul 7 2007, 08:20 PM']Yes. People actually dress up like Zombies at some "Halloween" Masses celebrated according to the revised Roman liturgy.[/quote]


This is hardly a common experience, and has nothing to do with which form of the Mass being celebrated.

Valid, holy, touching, orthodox Masses are celebrated with great care to follow liturgical norms under both forms of our Rite by devout, orthodox Catholics who are well-catechized. Latin Masses are almost always worthy of such a positive description because they are attended by such Catholics almost exclusively, but such Catholics by no means almost exclusively attend Mass said in Latin, and in those communities where they form a large segment, Masses said in the vernacular tend to merit equally positive description.