Habit Options..

[jkaands]

I saw an ad for the Dominicans of Springfield, IL, which included variety of pix of nuns, including a young one in a habit. Curious, I went to their website FAQ (note: I INCLUDE NO LINK) in the vocation section and found the following:

[i]Our community has four options. We can wear the long habit with a veil, a shorter habit with a veil, a black skirt and white blouse, or appropriate clothing with a symbol of our community.[/i]

This is the first time I've seen this made official, so to speak. Gemma has apparently spotted it (the habit option) at some other sites.

[Totus Tuus]

I would like to see the link if you could PM it. Just curious to learn more.

There is an office in the Vatican in charge of deciding what constitutes a habit for each Order (I believe it is a subsection of the CONGREGATION FOR INSTITUTES OF CONSECRATED LIFE AND SOCIETIES OF APOSTOLIC LIFE... or maybe it is the Congregation itself). After Vatican II, some Orders asked that only a lapel pin or their Order's logo on a necklace be their "habit". Many will dispute whether or not this was unfortunate- either way, not to get into that, these are the Vatican-approved "habits" for some communities.

As for Orders having options, I have seen that before. The Daughters of St. Paul, for example, have options as to their habits. Personally (and I don't know official teaching, if any, on this), I think that the habit, among many other things, promotes unity in the Community. That being so, it seems [i]logical[/i] that there be uniformity in what each sister wears, and that options be kept to a minimum. But honestly, I don't see minor options being a big deal. I think choosing between a full, traditional habit, and a "clothing symbol", as this Order you're talking about does, is a bit of an extreme option. Doesn't seem it would promote uniformity among the sisters. However, there are communities where there are options for the habit material. As far as appearances go, the sisters all look the same in these different fabrics (for example, at OLAM, sisters can choose between poplin and linen guimpes, and three different tunic fabric weights). But that doesn't affect the unity of their appearance, because they are such slight options.

Edited July 18, 2007 by Totus Tuus

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' post='1333918' date='Jul 18 2007, 04:49 PM']I would like to see the link if you could PM it. Just curious to learn more.

There is an office in the Vatican in charge of deciding what constitutes a habit for each Order (I believe it is a subsection of the CONGREGATION FOR INSTITUTES OF CONSECRATED LIFE AND SOCIETIES OF APOSTOLIC LIFE... or maybe it is the Congregation itself). After Vatican II, some Orders asked that only a lapel pin or their Order's logo on a necklace be their "habit". Many will dispute whether or not this was unfortunate- either way, not to get into that, these are the Vatican-approved "habits" for some communities.

As for Orders having options, I have seen that before. The Daughters of St. Paul, for example, have options as to their habits. Personally (and I don't know official teaching, if any, on this), I think that the habit, among many other things, promotes unity in the Community. That being so, it seems [i]logical[/i] that there be uniformity in what each sister wears, and that options be kept to a minimum. But honestly, I don't see minor options being a big deal. I think choosing between a full, traditional habit, and a "clothing symbol", as this Order you're talking about does, is a bit of an extreme option. Doesn't seem it would promote uniformity among the sisters. However, there are communities where there are options for the habit material. As far as appearances go, the sisters all look the same in these different fabrics (for example, at OLAM, sisters can choose between poplin and linen guimpes, and three different tunic fabric weights). But that doesn't affect the unity of their appearance, because they are such slight options.[/quote]

I'm not surprised that Springfield has all those options. Unity in diversity is a big thing for Dominicans. In the early days of the Order the complaint was that some friars have full habits, some narrow. Some have high boots, some have shoes, some have black cappas and some have red (meaning undyed redish black), etc.
This being said, I don't get it in this day in age when the community can obviously afford everyone to wear the same thing!
Not wearing the habit is a recent thing for the Springfield's. It's too bad. They used to get classes of postulants like Nashville does right up until the '90's.

If you come here there is no choosing fabric! You get your summer weight or winter weight when the vestiarian (that's me!) gives 'em out! I'd go crazy if the Sisters were offered these options!

I would think poplin guimpes would be hot, though. Is it true that they use steamers to press their habits? What a great idea!

[HeavenlyCalling]

I dont understand why they ould make the habit an option so recently. I know a lot of Orders opted for the 'habit' of lay clothes, but I haven't really heard of many making it an option in this day and age. I am all for a 'uniform' look, maybe I just spend too much time in one!!

[sunnysideup]

The Sisters that run my school are from the Springfeild Dominicans. I personally don't like the fact that they don't have to wear veils. Once on of my guys friends came in to pick up his sister (it's an all girls school) and a teacher came up and acked him what he was doing inside. After he explained she left and he turned to me and said "Was that a nun?" It just shows how confusing it can be. They have other interesting practices as well...

[veritas99]

These Sisters ran the all girl high school I went to in Illinois. Some of the older sisters on the faculty kind of wore the habit others did not. But the ones that did not you could at least tell they weren't lay people. Their theology was very skewed and way too social justicey ( I'm making up words) but I am greatful for being exposed to Dominican's at VERITAS!!!!! even though they did not really teach the truth. It's just a good reminder how important it is for us to pray for all religious.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Sr. Mary Catharine' post='1333929' date='Jul 18 2007, 04:00 PM']I'm not surprised that Springfield has all those options. Unity in diversity is a big thing for Dominicans. In the early days of the Order the complaint was that some friars have full habits, some narrow. Some have high boots, some have shoes, some have black cappas and some have red (meaning undyed redish black), etc.
This being said, I don't get it in this day in age when the community can obviously afford everyone to wear the same thing!
Not wearing the habit is a recent thing for the Springfield's. It's too bad. They used to get classes of postulants like Nashville does right up until the '90's.[/quote]

That is so interesting. Thanks for sharing.

[quote]If you come here there is no choosing fabric! You get your summer weight or winter weight when the vestiarian (that's me!) gives 'em out! I'd go crazy if the Sisters were offered these options!

I would think poplin guimpes would be hot, though. Is it true that they use steamers to press their habits? What a great idea![/quote]

The options with habit material did not seem to bother the seamstresses. The poplin is much lighter than the linen and breathes much better so it is actually cooler. It does not yellow with time either, so it was the fabric of choice for the white parts of the habit for the majority of sisters. As for the weights, I would imagine the heavy material is harder to work with.

Are you asking me about the steamers? If so, yes, at OLAM steamers are used to press everything. And unlike Dominicans, creases are not part of their presentation, so irons are not necessary : I loved using steamers... so much easier. As sacristan, I had a steamer in my hand for about an hour every day! (they're also used for the vestments, surplices, albs, cassocks...)

Edited July 18, 2007 by Totus Tuus

[jkaands]

[quote name='Sr. Mary Catharine' post='1333929' date='Jul 18 2007, 03:00 PM']I'm not surprised that Springfield has all those options. Unity in diversity is a big thing for Dominicans. In the early days of the Order the complaint was that some friars have full habits, some narrow. Some have high boots, some have shoes, some have black cappas and some have red (meaning undyed redish black), etc.
This being said, I don't get it in this day in age when the community can obviously afford everyone to wear the same thing!
Not wearing the habit is a recent thing for the Springfield's. It's too bad. They used to get classes of postulants like Nashville does right up until the '90's. (excerpt)

![/quote]

I came across a link from 2003 of a first profession of a Springfield in a Nashville-like habit. Two sisters from IRAQ (Mosul) were also renewing their vows, with a pic of one in the same habit.

I sure hope that they stay here...

[DiscerningSoul]

I went to a Carmel in Barrington RI when I was younger and the some sisters wore street clothes, some a vail also, some a uniform type without vail, some in a modified habit, but there was no uniformily. They are a very nice community thou, right on the beach!

Also [url="http://www.crossfire.org/daughtersofmary/"]http://www.crossfire.org/daughtersofmary/[/url] These sisters who I went to high school with have some differances, like dress like, some with a scapular but they look almost all alike. You can see the pictures on there site. They are a very nice active community with school and medical.

But I agree that sisters in communities need to look like sister's, there is two times I had no idea that a sister was at our church until someone pointed them out.

but as some say it's not the clothes you wear that makes a sister. and I remeber the old saying, its not what people say, or wear, it's how they act that counts.

Blessings all

Jessica
[url="http://www.xanga.com/adiscerningsoul"]http://www.xanga.com/adiscerningsoul[/url]

[HeavenlyCalling]

I dont know why anyone whould ever want to get rid of the Dominican habit... so beautiful

( not that others aren't, of course )

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' post='1334154' date='Jul 18 2007, 08:22 PM']That is so interesting. Thanks for sharing.
The options with habit material did not seem to bother the seamstresses. The poplin is much lighter than the linen and breathes much better so it is actually cooler. It does not yellow with time either, so it was the fabric of choice for the white parts of the habit for the majority of sisters. As for the weights, I would imagine the heavy material is harder to work with.

Are you asking me about the steamers? If so, yes, at OLAM steamers are used to press everything. And unlike Dominicans, creases are not part of their presentation, so irons are not necessary : I loved using steamers... so much easier. As sacristan, I had a steamer in my hand for about an hour every day! (they're also used for the vestments, surplices, albs, cassocks...)[/quote]

Creases are NOT a part of our habit, at least not for the friars or the nuns. In fact they were expressly forbidden in the nuns constitutions. I only recently learned about the style of habit of Nashville and Ann Arbor with creases and pleats in the skirt part and well, we don't consider that the authentic Dominican Habit!

For us, it is like the Poor Clares, a very simple tunic style. One size fits all! There are seams at the shoulders and then it hangs and is caught by the belt. NO PLEATS! NO CREASES! Deo gratias!

We'll have to look into steamers! We use the big pressers and it can be a lot of work. My only question would be how the scapular looks and obviously it looks fine for the Poor Clares.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Sr. Mary Catharine' post='1334255' date='Jul 18 2007, 09:15 PM']Creases are NOT a part of our habit, at least not for the friars or the nuns. In fact they were expressly forbidden in the nuns constitutions. I only recently learned about the style of habit of Nashville and Ann Arbor with creases and pleats in the skirt part and well, we don't consider that the authentic Dominican Habit!

For us, it is like the Poor Clares, a very simple tunic style. One size fits all! There are seams at the shoulders and then it hangs and is caught by the belt. NO PLEATS! NO CREASES! Deo gratias!

We'll have to look into steamers! We use the big pressers and it can be a lot of work. My only question would be how the scapular looks and obviously it looks fine for the Poor Clares.[/quote]

Oh I'm sorry sister. Every Dominican habit I've ever seen (contemplatives and actives included, both friars and nuns) have always had creases! I assumed it was part of the presentation of the Dominican habit.


Do consider steamers. They save a lot of precious time and probably save some money, too. The habit material for the tunics and scapulars at olam is made of some kind of rayon-blend, so it doesn't wrinkle much. The Dominican habits I have seen have more cotton, so I don't know if the scapular would look the same or not
Lauren

Edited July 19, 2007 by Totus Tuus

[Birgitta Noel]

I'm not a religious, but I switched to a steamer about a year ago. It is so much easier than an iron and works well on MOST fabrics. I suspect that anything a habit might be made out of it would work well on.

I could not live without my steamer now!

Just be careful not to scald yourself on the steam!

[shortnun]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' post='1334386' date='Jul 18 2007, 10:39 PM']Oh I'm sorry sister. Every Dominican habit I've ever seen (contemplatives and actives included, both friars and nuns) have always had creases! I assumed it was part of the presentation of the Dominican habit. [/quote]
I know some friars who wear creases and others who don't. One explanation I've heard is that they harken back to the days of mendicancy where the friars would fold up their scapular at night and put it under their bed. The next day, when they put it on, the creases would be as if they'd be ironed.

I also heard, I think from the Polish Dominican Sisters, that the crease on the capuce (do women call it that?) represents the open book of the gospel.

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' post='1334386' date='Jul 18 2007, 11:39 PM']Oh I'm sorry sister. Every Dominican habit I've ever seen (contemplatives and actives included, both friars and nuns) have always had creases! I assumed it was part of the presentation of the Dominican habit.
Do consider steamers. They save a lot of precious time and probably save some money, too. The habit material for the tunics and scapulars at olam is made of some kind of rayon-blend, so it doesn't wrinkle much. The Dominican habits I have seen have more cotton, so I don't know if the scapular would look the same or not
Lauren[/quote]

Oh, Lauren, I'm so sorry. When you said habit I was thinking about the tunic, especially because I just learned that the active sisters make it differently with pleats and creases in the skirt part.

Yes, for some reason, the friars love that crease down the center but it's not offically part of the habit. The horizontal creases come as a result of folding the scapular. The crease in the guimpe comes because it's easier to fold it and press it.

The habit, when it was all wool, used to be folded, not hung because it would stretch if hung.
As to the crease in the cape (or the friars capuce) representing the open book of the Gospel, well, that's a lovely sentiment but none of the creases are in the habit for those sort of reasons in the same way that the habits of later centuries had tucks and creases with all sorts of spiritual meaning. (One order had 53 pleats in the skirt for each hail Mary!)

Our habits are poly/rayon or now poly/wool (I ran out of the other stuff) and in the summer they are poly/cotton poplin so I would think that the steamer would be fine. Even if it was just a matter of pressing scapulars only it would be great. Our pressers are VERY old and ready to break down for good!

[Carmelitess]

I was wondering if anybody knew what the OCD Carmelite habit was made of---tunic, veil, toque, etc. I think I heard that they used to have a wool tunic, but I would like to know what the nuns wear now.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Sr. Mary Catharine' post='1334552' date='Jul 19 2007, 06:40 AM']Oh, Lauren, I'm so sorry. When you said habit I was thinking about the tunic, especially because I just learned that the active sisters make it differently with pleats and creases in the skirt part.

Yes, for some reason, the friars love that crease down the center but it's not offically part of the habit. The horizontal creases come as a result of folding the scapular. The crease in the guimpe comes because it's easier to fold it and press it.

The habit, when it was all wool, used to be folded, not hung because it would stretch if hung.
As to the crease in the cape (or the friars capuce) representing the open book of the Gospel, well, that's a lovely sentiment but none of the creases are in the habit for those sort of reasons in the same way that the habits of later centuries had tucks and creases with all sorts of spiritual meaning. (One order had 53 pleats in the skirt for each hail Mary!)

Our habits are poly/rayon or now poly/wool (I ran out of the other stuff) and in the summer they are poly/cotton poplin so I would think that the steamer would be fine. Even if it was just a matter of pressing scapulars only it would be great. Our pressers are VERY old and ready to break down for good![/quote]

Now we're on the same page! That is so interesting about the open Gospel. Very symbolic. I love learning about these traditions

I like Rowenta steamers, by the way

[quote]I was wondering if anybody knew what the OCD Carmelite habit was made of---tunic, veil, toque, etc. I think I heard that they used to have a wool tunic, but I would like to know what the nuns wear now.[/quote]

I am by no means qualified to answer this question in a broad sense. But I do know one young woman who was an aspirant with us at OLAM, who was formerly a Carmelite nun (I should say novice) in Canada. She did tell us quite a bit about [i]their[/i] habit, and it was made of wool. She said that in earlier days, their habits were made of very thick wool and they only washed them once a year, so when the sisters took them off they could literally stand up on their own they were so stiff... and she wasn't exaggerating! Quite amazing

Edited July 19, 2007 by Totus Tuus

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' post='1334794' date='Jul 19 2007, 02:43 PM']Now we're on the same page! That is so interesting about the open Gospel. Very symbolic. I love learning about these traditions

I like Rowenta steamers, by the way
I am by no means qualified to answer this question in a broad sense. But I do know one young woman who was an aspirant with us at OLAM, who was formerly a Carmelite nun (I should say novice) in Canada. She did tell us quite a bit about [i]their[/i] habit, and it was made of wool. She said that in earlier days, their habits were made of very thick wool and they only washed them once a year, so when the sisters took them off they could literally stand up on their own they were so stiff... and she wasn't exaggerating! Quite amazing [/quote]


Thanks for the steamer info

I know that some PCC's and the Tyburn Benedictines in London wash their habits only twice a year! UGH! I can see when there were no washing machines and with wool if you wash them too much they'll shrink. We wash ours every 2 weeks and by the middle of the second week my habit is SOOO dirty!

Here they washed the wool habits something like 4 times a year. I heard that when we washed the habits of the brethren who returned from the mission work the habits stood by themselves, too!

I think some OCD monasteries still use wool and others don't. It's so expensive! That's the problem.

We had to wear wool (no less than 51%) up until the 70's but they changed that in the constitutions because wool was no longer the fabric of the poor but of the rich!

[sunnysideup]

[quote name='veritas99' post='1334140' date='Jul 18 2007, 06:53 PM']These Sisters ran the all girl high school I went to in Illinois. Some of the older sisters on the faculty kind of wore the habit others did not. But the ones that did not you could at least tell they weren't lay people. Their theology was very skewed and way too social justicey ( I'm making up words) but I am greatful for being exposed to Dominican's at VERITAS!!!!! even though they did not really teach the truth. It's just a good reminder how important it is for us to pray for all religious.[/quote]

If you dont' mind me asking, what was the name of your school? It sounds very similar to mine.

[jkaands]

[quote name='Sr. Mary Catharine' post='1334950' date='Jul 19 2007, 02:45 PM']Thanks for the steamer info

I know that some PCC's and the Tyburn Benedictines in London wash their habits only twice a year! UGH! I can see when there were no washing machines and with wool if you wash them too much they'll shrink. We wash ours every 2 weeks and by the middle of the second week my habit is SOOO dirty!

Here they washed the wool habits something like 4 times a year. I heard that when we washed the habits of the brethren who returned from the mission work the habits stood by themselves, too!

I think some OCD monasteries still use wool and others don't. It's so expensive! That's the problem.

We had to wear wool (no less than 51%) up until the 70's but they changed that in the constitutions because wool was no longer the fabric of the poor but of the rich![/quote]

...if you read the 'why I left the convent' literature from the 50's onwards, starting with 'I Leap Over The Wall' by an Englishwoman who left a cloistered English convent after many years, you'll find a recurring theme of how dirty the ex-nuns and their habits were. There was a prudish, Jansenist thread in the rules and constitutions of many of the orders, especially those founded in France in the 19th c. They couldn't bathe very often, they had to wear 'bathing' clothes when they did bathe, and they couldn't wash parts of their outfits very often--the Daughters of Wisdom, who had a beautiful habit, also had a crinoline of some kind under their gown, which they were permitted to wash [b]once a year[/b]. My suspicion is that some of the orders with the most antiquated rules and most oppressive habits were those whose members were the first to throw them out, and many of the older sisters now who wear civvies are from those days. The younger members may be able introduce a common-sense habit into these orders.