Habit Options..

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='jkaands' post='1335869' date='Jul 20 2007, 07:59 PM']...if you read the 'why I left the convent' literature from the 50's onwards, starting with 'I Leap Over The Wall' by an Englishwoman who left a cloistered English convent after many years, you'll find a recurring theme of how dirty the ex-nuns and their habits were. There was a prudish, Jansenist thread in the rules and constitutions of many of the orders, especially those founded in France in the 19th c. They couldn't bathe very often, they had to wear 'bathing' clothes when they did bathe, and they couldn't wash parts of their outfits very often--the Daughters of Wisdom, who had a beautiful habit, also had a crinoline of some kind under their gown, which they were permitted to wash [b]once a year[/b]. My suspicion is that some of the orders with the most antiquated rules and most oppressive habits were those whose members were the first to throw them out, and many of the older sisters now who wear civvies are from those days. The younger members may be able introduce a common-sense habit into these orders.[/quote]

I knew a woman who was in a convent for a very short period of time in the forties or so. She had to wear a nightgown type thing when bathing as well.

I do think there were some Jansenist ideals insofar as habits were concerned. The solution was obviously not to throw them out all together, but you make a good point: That perhaps the newer generations will bring back common-sense habits.

I love the mendicants for always having simple habits

[DiscerningSoul]

If you watch the movie 'Threase' you see them washing what looks to be thier habits in a wash pool.
With washing machines and dryers, I would at least think they could wash the habits more?

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='Sr. Mary Catharine' post='1334950' date='Jul 19 2007, 09:45 PM']Thanks for the steamer info

I know that some PCC's and the Tyburn Benedictines in London wash their habits only twice a year! UGH! I can see when there were no washing machines and with wool if you wash them too much they'll shrink. We wash ours every 2 weeks and by the middle of the second week my habit is SOOO dirty![/quote]

Really?! I don't understand how the Tyburn can get away with washing their habits only twice a year. Especially as they're WHITE. And what if you're doing hard work in the house, like scrubbing floors? I don't see how being smelly and dirty adds anything to your devotional life.

[Carmelitess]

[quote name='Sr. Mary Catharine' post='1334950' date='Jul 19 2007, 04:45 PM']Thanks for the steamer info

I know that some PCC's and the Tyburn Benedictines in London wash their habits only twice a year! UGH! I can see when there were no washing machines and with wool if you wash them too much they'll shrink. We wash ours every 2 weeks and by the middle of the second week my habit is SOOO dirty!

Here they washed the wool habits something like 4 times a year. I heard that when we washed the habits of the brethren who returned from the mission work the habits stood by themselves, too!

I think some OCD monasteries still use wool and others don't. It's so expensive! That's the problem.

We had to wear wool (no less than 51%) up until the 70's but they changed that in the constitutions because wool was no longer the fabric of the poor but of the rich![/quote]


Thanks for the info, Sister Mary Catherine and Lauren! I sure hope that the nuns at the monastery I eventually enter wash their habits often! I'm surprised the habits of the Carmelite nuns Lauren mentioned didn't get up and walk to the washing basin themselves.

Do nuns wear the same habit every day, or do they have two or three? The nuns I've seen on EWTN or in photographs always look as if they're wearing clean clothes, so....

[Carmelitess]

[quote name='jkaands' post='1335869' date='Jul 20 2007, 08:59 PM']...if you read the 'why I left the convent' literature from the 50's onwards, starting with 'I Leap Over The Wall' by an Englishwoman who left a cloistered English convent after many years, you'll find a recurring theme of how dirty the ex-nuns and their habits were. There was a prudish, Jansenist thread in the rules and constitutions of many of the orders, especially those founded in France in the 19th c. They couldn't bathe very often, they had to wear 'bathing' clothes when they did bathe, and they couldn't wash parts of their outfits very often--the Daughters of Wisdom, who had a beautiful habit, also had a crinoline of some kind under their gown, which they were permitted to wash [b]once a year[/b]. My suspicion is that some of the orders with the most antiquated rules and most oppressive habits were those whose members were the first to throw them out, and many of the older sisters now who wear civvies are from those days. The younger members may be able introduce a common-sense habit into these orders.[/quote]


That is so interesting, JKaands! I'm so glad that the cleanliness practices of nuns have changed!

[be_thou_my_vision]

[quote name='Carmelitess' post='1336635' date='Jul 21 2007, 03:49 PM']Thanks for the info, Sister Mary Catherine and Lauren! I sure hope that the nuns at the monastery I eventually enter wash their habits often! I'm surprised the habits of the Carmelite nuns Lauren mentioned didn't get up and walk to the washing basin themselves.

Do nuns wear the same habit every day, or do they have two or three? The nuns I've seen on EWTN or in photographs always look as if they're wearing clean clothes, so....[/quote]
My community has 2 habits-- one nice one and one dirty one. Each sister has a "laundry day" when they can take their clothes to the laundry and the sisters there will wash all the laundry. (I hear they are miracle-makers with stains! I imagine we wash our habit when it is dirty or starts to smell. We have a very low-maintenance habit-- wool and cotton blend. We just wash it on cold and let it air dry, and there you go!

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Carmelitess' post='1336635' date='Jul 21 2007, 03:49 PM']Do nuns wear the same habit every day, or do they have two or three? The nuns I've seen on EWTN or in photographs always look as if they're wearing clean clothes, so....[/quote]


The PCPAs in Hanceville (which are the nuns you probably see through EWTN) have two habits Having [i]brown[/i] habits helps keep the appearance of cleanliness even when they're kinda dirty. However, aprons are a BIG must - the seamstresses at OLAM stress the use of aprons during all work periods!

[be_thou_my_vision]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' post='1336654' date='Jul 21 2007, 04:18 PM']The PCPAs in Hanceville (which are the nuns you probably see through EWTN) have two habits Having [i]brown[/i] habits helps keep the appearance of cleanliness even when they're kinda dirty. However, aprons are a BIG must - the seamstresses at OLAM stress the use of aprons during all work periods![/quote]
Ya, those help a lot.

[Carmelitess]

[quote name='be_thou_my_vision' post='1336642' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:04 PM']My community has 2 habits-- one nice one and one dirty one. Each sister has a "laundry day" when they can take their clothes to the laundry and the sisters there will wash all the laundry. (I hear they are miracle-makers with stains! I imagine we wash our habit when it is dirty or starts to smell. We have a very low-maintenance habit-- wool and cotton blend. We just wash it on cold and let it air dry, and there you go![/quote]


Wool and cotton is a very nice combo! I love natural fabrics that breathe.

Btw, do most nuns at least get to wash their undergarments frequently? I can understand that big aprons would take care of the cleanliness of the tunic, but what do they do about the b.o in the undergarments? Does everything that goes under the habit get to be clean every day---all garments that are close to the skin?

Also, does anybody know if most Carmelite nuns bathe daily?

[be_thou_my_vision]

[quote name='Carmelitess' post='1336679' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:19 PM']Wool and cotton is a very nice combo! I love natural fabrics that breathe.

Btw, do most nuns at least get to wash their undergarments frequently? I can understand that big aprons would take care of the cleanliness of the tunic, but what do they do about the b.o in the undergarments? Does everything that goes under the habit get to be clean every day---all garments that are close to the skin?

Also, does anybody know if most Carmelite nuns bathe daily?[/quote]
Under our habits, we wear a white t-shirt and a slip, and yes, those are clean. We get up to 7 white shirts and 3-4 slips, and like I said, we get to do laundry every week. So that stuff gets cleaned. And of course we wear clean undergarments.
The Carmelite nuns in Terre Haute, IN bathe daily. When I was discerning with them, I asked that same question.
I'm pretty finicky about hygiene, so all these questions were high on my list.

[awyers]

[quote name='Sr. Mary Catharine' post='1334255' date='Jul 18 2007, 08:15 PM']Creases are NOT a part of our habit, at least not for the friars or the nuns. In fact they were expressly forbidden in the nuns constitutions. I only recently learned about the style of habit of Nashville and Ann Arbor with creases and pleats in the skirt part and well, we don't consider that the authentic Dominican Habit!

For us, it is like the Poor Clares, a very simple tunic style. One size fits all! There are seams at the shoulders and then it hangs and is caught by the belt. NO PLEATS! NO CREASES! Deo gratias!

We'll have to look into steamers! We use the big pressers and it can be a lot of work. My only question would be how the scapular looks and obviously it looks fine for the Poor Clares.[/quote]

I am just recently back from pre-postulant week with the SMME and I can say for a fact that their habits do not have any creases or pleats in the 'skirt part' since I helped wash them! The have a simple loose-fitting one piece tunic and the scapular is folded to form three crosses down the middle.

[Carmelitess]

[quote name='be_thou_my_vision' post='1336706' date='Jul 21 2007, 06:58 PM']Under our habits, we wear a white t-shirt and a slip, and yes, those are clean. We get up to 7 white shirts and 3-4 slips, and like I said, we get to do laundry every week. So that stuff gets cleaned. And of course we wear clean undergarments.
The Carmelite nuns in Terre Haute, IN bathe daily. When I was discerning with them, I asked that same question.
I'm pretty finicky about hygiene, so all these questions were high on my list. [/quote]


Thanks for being so specific! I, too, love to be clean and fresh every day.

I know that every community is different, but it's such a relief to know that your community and the Carmel in Indiana practice good hygiene. : How great that you all have plenty of underclothes!

I just hope all this is the same in communities in Italy....

God bless!

[be_thou_my_vision]

[quote name='Carmelitess' post='1336847' date='Jul 21 2007, 08:52 PM']Thanks for being so specific! I, too, love to be clean and fresh every day.

I know that every community is different, but it's such a relief to know that your community and the Carmel in Indiana practice good hygiene. : How great that you all have plenty of underclothes!

I just hope all this is the same in communities in Italy....

God bless![/quote]
Haha! Yes, Italy could be a completely different story!!

[rosamundi]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1336358' date='Jul 21 2007, 03:31 PM']Really?! I don't understand how the Tyburn can get away with washing their habits only twice a year. Especially as they're WHITE. And what if you're doing hard work in the house, like scrubbing floors? I don't see how being smelly and dirty adds anything to your devotional life.[/quote]

The Tyburn Nuns wear black habits, with a white choir robe.

I used to take part in the Night Adoration at Tyburn, we would meet the nun in charge of the adorers before we went up to watch, and I can say I didn't notice that her habit was as dirty or as smelly as one would expect it to be if it was only washed twice a year. Perhaps the rules have changed.

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

[quote name='Piobaire' post='1336838' date='Jul 21 2007, 10:40 PM']I am just recently back from pre-postulant week with the SMME and I can say for a fact that their habits do not have any creases or pleats in the 'skirt part' since I helped wash them! The have a simple loose-fitting one piece tunic and the scapular is folded to form three crosses down the middle.[/quote]

I wonder if they changed because a former novice told me this. She said that the tunic part was cut separate from the skirt part and sewn together and that there were 2 pleats, front and back. It was the same habit as Nashville.

Isn't there a crease down the front of the scapular vertically? That's what it looks like. Both the friars and the sisters have (had) that. The nuns just had the horizontal folds because the scapulars were folded and placed on the shelf, not hung. Once we began hanging our scapulars with the tunic there was no need for the folds. The only time you see folds is when someone gets a habit off the shelf and it hasn't been repressed yet! :-)

thanks for filling us in!

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

[quote name='rosamundi' post='1337311' date='Jul 22 2007, 07:53 AM']The Tyburn Nuns wear black habits, with a white choir robe.

I used to take part in the Night Adoration at Tyburn, we would meet the nun in charge of the adorers before we went up to watch, and I can say I didn't notice that her habit was as dirty or as smelly as one would expect it to be if it was only washed twice a year. Perhaps the rules have changed.[/quote]


Well, this was from a postulant who just left there about 2 months ago!

[rosamundi]

[quote name='Sr. Mary Catharine' post='1337399' date='Jul 22 2007, 04:33 PM']Well, this was from a postulant who just left there about 2 months ago![/quote]

Eurgh! Although I can honestly say I didn't notice any, um, fragrance that one would expect if the habit was only washed twice a year - but then I was an Adorer, not a postulant so would obviously not be as familiar with the monastery's ways as she would be.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='Sr. Mary Catharine' post='1337399' date='Jul 22 2007, 04:33 PM']Well, this was from a postulant who just left there about 2 months ago![/quote]

A couple of years ago I considered writing to Tyburn for some vocational information. I am so glad I didn't. I bet they wouldn't have included that in the leaflets.

Funny how little things put you off.

Like wanting to be clean.

What does it achieve to wash your habit only twice a year? I don't see the point.

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' post='1336654' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:18 PM']The PCPAs in Hanceville (which are the nuns you probably see through EWTN) have two habits Having [i]brown[/i] habits helps keep the appearance of cleanliness even when they're kinda dirty. However, aprons are a BIG must - the seamstresses at OLAM stress the use of aprons during all work periods![/quote]

Yes, but how is it that stains manage to get onto your habit EVEN with an apron on or that food 10 feet away somehow manages to get onto your sleeve! Or that a DIRTY habit doesn't attract more stains but a CLEAN habit on the FIRST day, does!

These are the real mysteries of monastic life!

BTW, we wear "tunicelles" (Little tunics) under our habit and we change those everyday or almost everyday. And we have plenty of undergarments and stockings to change every day, too. We don't have personal wash but a community wash. However, should you need to get something washed before the washday you can always do it.

When I first go the habit we had a puppy and she would ALWAYS run up to me and jump up on me with her paws full of mud! I was always getting permission to wash my habit between washes! Now, I see a stain and I say, "Oh well!"

Edited July 22, 2007 by Sr. Mary Catharine

[Lioness For Christ]

[quote name='Sr. Mary Catharine' post='1334950' date='Jul 19 2007, 03:45 PM']I think some OCD monasteries still use wool and others don't. It's so expensive! That's the problem.

We had to wear wool (no less than 51%) up until the 70's but they changed that in the constitutions because wool was no longer the fabric of the poor but of the rich![/quote]


A ha! I thought there must have been a reason they don't look like wool now!

And I totally forgot how hard it would be to clean them!