Modesty And Discernment

[Carmelitess]

I was wondering if any of the women/girls here had changed the way they dressed after finding that they had a vocation. Did you become more modest, and, if so, how? I've started to become really careful, especially since a monsignor I really respect said that it's best for girls and women to wear:

skirts or dresses that cover the knees

shirts that reach the elbow and cover our chests

generally looss-fitting clothing

non-transparent clothing

clothes that cover the mid-drif

He made sure that I knew that women who wear short-sleeved shirts are not being immodest, but that it's meritorious to wear longer shirts.

Just curious to see what y'all thought!

Your sister in Christ,

Margaret

[cathoholic_anonymous]

Funny that you should post this. I have been seriously thinking about my dress code lately. I am often to be seen in traditional Arabic dress, which is very modest, but as I only wear it for cultural reasons I will go from wearing a jilbab on Wednesday to a pair of shorts and a T-shirt on Thursday, depending on where I'm going. I am considering letting go of my shorts and just wearing three-quarter-length trousers in summer. I think the decision was already made, subconsciously, quite some time ago - I haven't worn my shorts in several weeks now. I will wait until my parents are more accepting of my convictions, and then quietly take them to the charity shop.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

My shorts, not my parents.

[be_thou_my_vision]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1347306' date='Aug 2 2007, 12:35 PM']My shorts, not my parents.[/quote]
Haha

[Carmelitess]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1347306' date='Aug 2 2007, 02:35 PM']My shorts, not my parents.[/quote]


Hehe! You're funny. I'm so glad that my post was helpful! I hope you don't mind my asking, but did you used to be Muslim?

Have you found it a great sacrifice to give up fashion for modest dress? I've found it difficult, because it seems that almost the only places to find clothing that really covers you up is at a store catering to women aged 30 and above. (I'm only 18!) It's a great way to get used to sacrificing one's vanity as preparation for religious life! Also, there's a great beauty in dressing as Our Lady would dress, don't you think?

Oh, and here is a link to a company that sells modest clothing:

[url="http://www.modestapparelusa.com/"]Modest Apparel USA[/url]

Also, here are two books written by an author mentioned in a [i]Newsweek[/i] article on girls and modesty:

[i]Girls Gone Mild [/i]

[i]A Return To Modesty[/i]

I haven't read either book, so I can't give it a personal recommendation, but they looked pretty good.

Her website is [url="http://www.modestyzone.net/"]Modesty Zone[/url]

[VeniteAdoremus]

You don't have to give up fashion for modest dress

I'm about medium-modest, I think. My basic thought is "if I would be ashamed to wear it in church, there's no sense in wearing it at all" I wear fitted t-shirts, but they're not tight. I've never seen any sense in uncovering my mid-riff, fortunately, so that's not a problem and deep plunging necklines are also not really my thing.

Skirts can be a problem since I have a 38" inseam (and that's not a typo ). Two of my favourites are exactly knee-length, although I wish they were a couple of inches longer.

All these things you can get in colours that are in fashion. Most of my friends don't even know that I take care to look modest!

Oh, and do you know that it's actually quite wonderful to wear ankle-length skirts? You can just flop down in the grass or curl up on a train seat and you don't have to give a thought to what's showing and what's not

[Carmelitess]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1347538' date='Aug 2 2007, 05:04 PM']You don't have to give up fashion for modest dress

I'm about medium-modest, I think. My basic thought is "if I would be ashamed to wear it in church, there's no sense in wearing it at all" I wear fitted t-shirts, but they're not tight. I've never seen any sense in uncovering my mid-riff, fortunately, so that's not a problem and deep plunging necklines are also not really my thing.

Skirts can be a problem since I have a 38" inseam (and that's not a typo ). Two of my favourites are exactly knee-length, although I wish they were a couple of inches longer.

All these things you can get in colours that are in fashion. Most of my friends don't even know that I take care to look modest!

Oh, and do you know that it's actually quite wonderful to wear ankle-length skirts? You can just flop down in the grass or curl up on a train seat and you don't have to give a thought to what's showing and what's not [/quote]


I, too love ankle-length skirts! I'm actually quite petite, so if a skirt is made long, it is always long on me! (I'm only 5 feet 2 inches if I stand up straight!)

Do you shop online? If you do, can you give me some websites that sell modest clothing? I'm having a little trouble finding them.

Thanks so much!

Yours in Christ,

Margaret

[philosophette]

I agree with Venite - you do not need to give up fashion in the process of being modest. I think that dressing modestly does not mean wearing a potato sack (or nothing but shapeless jumpers).

The purpose of modesty is to show dignity to the human body, to our maleness or femaleness.

I think that short sleeves are perfectly fine, but I do believe is covering cleavage, mids, and having skirts that go to my knees. I do not only wear skirts, though (although I prefer them).

There is nothing wrong with having clothing with a shape, so long as it is not so tight that it reveals more than it conceals!

When I dress modestly I am treated with more respect, and as someone who considers herself a Catholic woman who works actively against the American concept of what it means to be a woman (to be a "thing" to be owned or pined after), by dressing with dignity I am asserting my beinghood, not my thinghood.

It is possible to find modest clothing in stores, and it does not hurt to learn how to sew so you can make adjustments! Also having shells or camis are great for "filling in" a somewhat too short neckline on an otherwise wonderful shirt! lol.

I think the the trends are starting to slowly move to a more modest look.

Here is a website with many links of different modest clothing stores.

[url="http://www.modestclothes.com/"]LINK[/url]

[HeavenlyCalling]

I have not really changed the way I dress, because my parents have always insistead that I dress modestly. I prefer skirts, but wear jeans a lot too. I have a ton of low cut shirts, but I wear tank tops under them, so it is not a problem

[Totus Tuus]

I like those priest's guidelines. They are similar to my own, but I think it's important not to give everyone a black and white. It should come natural to the female sex to cover the parts of their body that are for their husbands or God alone (I don't need to make a list of those items : ). That said, this is how I personally dress: I try to dress as appropriately for the situation as I can. I don't wear anything above the knee (at least, I try not to). But that's not too hard right now because the long shorts and capris are selling well. I don't wear pants to Mass. My favorite piece of clothing is a Levis ankle-length blue jean skirt And I opt for button-up blouses or t-shirts, because I don't have to worry about anything low-cut with those. I don't wear sleeveless clothing either.

But I think it's important to observe situations appropriately. For example, you would not dress for Mass like you would dress for working out. You would not wear a bathing suit to the grocery store, but a bathing suit can be modest (I have my own guidelines... I wear a one-piece with shorts), but only in a place where you need to be wearing it.

There should be a sense of the sacred and mysterious when it comes to the female body. We can be likened to the ark of the covenant, having the potentiality to bear life [i]within[/i] us. Even if we never do, physically, we always have that [i]potentiality[/i], and that makes our bodies very privileged. We should reverence that privilege (and so should men, but we have to be the ones who promote reverence by the way we dress and by our actions). It is a gift from God and modesty is what safeguards it for Him, and potentially for a husband.

[VeniteAdoremus]

I love this thread

Personally I'd like it best if modest dress wasn't called modest dress anymore - but just dress

I think Totus Tuus said it really well.

But - what about men? When do they dress modest? Is it even necessary, for them? Is it about covering up, or more about style?

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1348388' date='Aug 3 2007, 04:08 AM']But - what about men? When do they dress modest? Is it even necessary, for them? Is it about covering up, or more about style?[/quote]

I don't know the best argument or explanation for this question. One factor is that women are not as visually-stimulated as men are, so they can wear less without being an occasion to sin for women. There are other factors that go into the modesty of men, but the arguments I've heard usually include admonishing men to always examine their motives for the way they dress...

[cathoholic_anonymous]

I think men should dress modestly as well. It's tacky when they don't. Whenever I see guys strolling around the town centre without a shirt on, clearly showing off their muscles or their lurid tattoos, I am reminded of those red-bottomed baboons who try to attract life partners by the size and colour of their backsides. (And yes, I used 'that' for the guys and 'who' for the baboons deliberately. The baboons can't help being exhibitionists; it's the way God made them.)

[quote]I'm so glad that my post was helpful! I hope you don't mind my asking, but did you used to be Muslim?[/quote]

Not all Arabs are Muslims - there is a very sizeable number of Christian Arabs. As it happens, I'm neither. I'm an English girl who grew up in Saudi Arabia. It is my 'second culture', and as I spent so long there it often feels more real than my first. This is why I dress Arab or sometimes Pakistani-style - those are the clothes I feel most comfortable with.

I never formally took my [i]shahada[/i] (the Muslim proclamation of faith that needs to be said in front of at least two witnesses to be binding) but I prayed and practised as a Muslim for quite a long time without actually making a formal conversion. A quiet belief that Jesus was more than al-Qur'an made Him out to be kept me back from that last step.

Onto the subject of fashion, I have never felt like I was making a sacrifice at all. Here is an example of the kind of clothes I wear:

[img]http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c359/parnassus/candysvisit002-1.jpg[/img]

An early Christmas party. I am the girl in green. (The long scarf hanging from my left shoulder can be opened up and used as a cross between a headscarf and a cloak if I need it.)

Edited August 3, 2007 by Cathoholic Anonymous

[IrishSalesian]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' date='Aug 3 2007, 09:10 AM' post='1348410']
I think men should dress modestly as well. It's tacky when they don't. Whenever I see guys strolling around the town centre without a shirt on, clearly showing off their muscles or their lurid tattoos, I am reminded of those red-bottomed baboons who try to attract life partners by the size and colour of their backsides. (And yes, I used 'that' for the guys and 'who' for the baboons deliberately. The baboons can't help being exhibitionists; it's the way God made them.)

I agree with you. I am a member of the "that" sex. And Modesty is the best policy for me. I do have a couple of brothers who would think differently however. Not all tattos are bad, I have one of the trinity rings on my calf. I am a seminarian as well. I think men should always keep their pants above the backsides, their boxers or whatever they are wearing, should be covered by their pants, shorts, or whatever. Men should also, if they are dating, ask their girlfriend to change, if shes not "dressed" the right way,(that was for the one who said they wished it to be called dress, rather than modestly dressed.) So the street goes both ways on the modesty issue. And yes, men are more tempted to look ad fall to temptaion! Its our baboon like nature. Well some men anyway, there are still a few gentleman out there. Not many, but some.

Peace to you all,

Adam

[VeniteAdoremus]

[quote name='IrishSalesian' post='1348416' date='Aug 3 2007, 03:53 PM']I agree with you. I am a member of the "that" sex. And Modesty is the best policy for me. I do have a couple of brothers who would think differently however. Not all tattos are bad, I have one of the trinity rings on my calf. I am a seminarian as well. I think men should always keep their pants above the backsides, their boxers or whatever they are wearing, should be covered by their pants, shorts, or whatever. Men should also, if they are dating, ask their girlfriend to change, if shes not "dressed" the right way,(that was for the one who said they wished it to be called dress, rather than modestly dressed.) So the street goes both ways on the modesty issue. And yes, men are more tempted to look ad fall to temptaion! Its our baboon like nature. Well some men anyway, there are still a few gentleman out there. Not many, but some.

Peace to you all,

Adam[/quote]

Tee hee, thank you

If I ever got a tattoo it'd be of the Trinity rings. Gotta love those!

I actually had a boyfriend who told me I shouldn't even think of wearing more revealing clothes! He knew I'd be uncomfortable in them, and thought they didn't suit my personality. So yay to those boyfriends.

Also, I completely agree with CA on the guys' part - there is a reason why underwear is underwear, and I can get really uncomfortable when people aren't even wearing shirts in public. (By the way, that dress is fabulous.)

[HeavenlyCalling]

Cath Anon, that is a beautiful outfit!!!

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='IrishSalesian' post='1348416' date='Aug 3 2007, 02:53 PM']I agree with you. I am a member of the "that" sex. And Modesty is the best policy for me.[/quote]

I wasn't talking about men in general in my post. Just the tattooed guys I see without shirts in the town centre. I'm sorry if it wasn't clear enough. I just think it's undignified at best to go to the high street and the shops without a shirt, especially in the height of summer when the shops are crowded and you are all sweaty. But the baboons of the town seem to think this is attractive to ladies.

[IrishSalesian]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1348469' date='Aug 3 2007, 11:19 AM']I wasn't talking about men in general in my post. Just the tattooed guys I see without shirts in the town centre. I'm sorry if it wasn't clear enough. I just think it's undignified at best to go to the high street and the shops without a shirt, especially in the height of summer when the shops are crowded and you are all sweaty. But the baboons of the town seem to think this is attractive to ladies.[/quote]

I was trying to be sarcastic, make a joke of the "that Sex" comment. And Your right, those guys are baboons. No apologies necessary

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1347538' date='Aug 2 2007, 04:04 PM']You don't have to give up fashion for modest dress

I'm about medium-modest, I think. My basic thought is "if I would be ashamed to wear it in church, there's no sense in wearing it at all" I wear fitted t-shirts, but they're not tight. I've never seen any sense in uncovering my mid-riff, fortunately, so that's not a problem and deep plunging necklines are also not really my thing.

Skirts can be a problem since I have a 38" inseam (and that's not a typo ). Two of my favourites are exactly knee-length, although I wish they were a couple of inches longer.

All these things you can get in colours that are in fashion. Most of my friends don't even know that I take care to look modest!

Oh, and do you know that it's actually quite wonderful to wear ankle-length skirts? You can just flop down in the grass or curl up on a train seat and you don't have to give a thought to what's showing and what's not [/quote]

Yes, my thoughts are much of what you said. I am only 17...and love fashion! I'm not a freak about it or anything, but I love to wear bright colors like, pink, blue, green and red. I make sure all of my skirts are below the knee, but the shirts are hard. I have to buy a cami for everything it seems!! and even with those, I have to pull them up sometimes. I don't wear shorts that are above the knee either. But, I try to be as modest as I can. I also think, would I wear this to mass? And if not, I don't buy it. (Except for pants and things like that...I don't wear pants to Mass.)

[jkaands]

[quote name='Ora et Labora' post='1348528' date='Aug 3 2007, 10:03 AM']Yes, my thoughts are much of what you said. I am only 17...and love fashion! I'm not a freak about it or anything, but I love to wear bright colors like, pink, blue, green and red. I make sure all of my skirts are below the knee, but the shirts are hard. I have to buy a cami for everything it seems!! and even with those, I have to pull them up sometimes. I don't wear shorts that are above the knee either. But, I try to be as modest as I can. I also think, would I wear this to mass? And if not, I don't buy it. (Except for pants and things like that...I don't wear pants to Mass.)[/quote]

I don't have a figure good enough to wear camis and I'm too old anyway, so I wear a short sleeved tee with a crew or shallow scoop neck or boat neck, one of my favorites, or square neck, ditto, with an long sleeved open shirt hanging out . It's a good look and forgiving for the not so slender midriff. Also modest. Usually the tee is black with a bright shirt. The "Marie" look (Raymond).