Why Are Protestants So Fixed On The Resurrected Jesus?

[hoosieranna]

Why does there have to be a division?

[Andreas E.]

Budge,

why do we as Protestants have crosses altogether in our churches? It's still a man-made thing, just like the golden calf was. Why do we have pictures of dead pastors or reformers in our hallways? Perhaps a true Protestant church should have nothing but a few benches and a desk for the preacher. Just like an old school room. The pulpit should not be any higher either, otherwise the preacher could be held in higher esteem than the congregation. Also, no more altar calls either. No more singing "At the Cross, at the Cross..." If you think Catholics are violating the 2nd commandment, you should take your conclusion to its proper end.

I have no problems with the Crucifix. Quite the opposite. It is a great reminder of Christ's suffering for us.

BTW, in the Protestant churches I have called home, we did reflect on the sufferings of our Lord. Obviously we did not have the stations of the cross. However, I do think that our Catholic brethren are right that we don't do it enough.

I sometimes think the intense outpouring of emotions after watching the Passion of the Christ has a lot to do with us not reflecting on His sufferings, as perhaps for a lot of Protestants this was the first time ever it had been so vividly brought to light.

[Budge]

Theres nothing wrong with a cross. I have a sculpture of a cross right next to me.

Crucifix is differnet with false potrayals of Jesus {long hair when Bible makes clear Jewish men considered long hair a shame} {breaking second commandment} presenting him bleeding and dead, Satan must really love that.

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='Budge' post='1360333' date='Aug 16 2007, 04:13 PM']Theres nothing wrong with a cross. I have a sculpture of a cross right next to me.

Crucifix is differnet with false potrayals of Jesus {long hair when Bible makes clear Jewish men considered long hair a shame} {breaking second commandment} presenting him bleeding and dead, Satan must really love that.[/quote]

How is there nothing wrong with a cross.

Prove that displaying a cross is Biblical.

[Budge]

[quote]Prove that displaying a cross is Biblical.[/quote]

Im not a Moonie.

{Moon called for all crosses to be removed from churches}

Actually one doesnt need to display crosses or wear one etc, to be a Christian.

One needs to preach the cross.....

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='Budge' post='1360365' date='Aug 16 2007, 04:33 PM']Im not a Moonie.

{Moon called for all crosses to be removed from churches}

Actually one doesnt need to display crosses or wear one etc, to be a Christian.

One needs to preach the cross.....[/quote]

So you're a hypocrite?

[Budge]

I am against crucifixes...

never said Im against crosses.

Read what Ive posted about the second commandment...

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='Budge' post='1360376' date='Aug 16 2007, 04:37 PM']I am against crucifixes...

never said Im against crosses.

Read what Ive posted about the second commandment...[/quote]

You constantly berate us for all the "unbiblical" things Catholics do, yet when it's pointed out you do unbiblical things, you have no response.

So why do you display a cross, if such action isn't in the Bible?

[Dismas]

But it isn't just the crucifix though, is it.

Sure, in the Catholic home, I am sure to find a crucifix in each bedroom, with this/last year's palm placed behind it.

In these same homes, I can be sure to find the Last Supper in the kitchen or dining room.

I am sure to find a Madonna and Child in a communal room or even the the bedrooms.

Plenty of Catholic homes have creche scenes displayed outside, year round. From Advent to Epiphany, there is bound to be another Nativity placed within for all to see. As the season progresses, more figures are placed about the stable.

It also would also be fitting to find such things as scenes of the Annunciation, the Agony in the Garden, the Wedding of Cana, and numerous other such things.

It is not the crucifix alone that galls the Protestant, but something deeper. Just as it is not the relics in and of themselves that angers the Protestant, for many treasure their history as well. It is not the use of seven Sacraments that bothers the Protestant's sensibilities so much as what they imply. Even the ire drawn from our love of Mary has nothing to do with a personal loathing of her. It can be summed up in one word: [b]Matter[/b].

Matter, and the flesh which is part of matter, confounds the Protestant. At the very heart of the Protest is the repudiation of matter, embodied by their embrace of Sola Fides. With the total exclusion of Works from one's salvation, the whole Mystery of our flesh is lost. Love is then seen only in spirit, and is forgotten that for us humans, it is to be wrought on our flesh. We might as well have been made as ignorant and thick-witted angels, for matter is scorned as immaterial.

With human cooperation in works stripped of meaning, where is the beauty of the Fiat or the Magnificat? I assure you, this is the source of that disconnect.

Without the Theology of the Body, the poignancy of the Incarnation becomes only Condescension. The humanness of Christ is thrown into a gutter. And thus in Nestorian logic, the uncomfortable name "Mary" is spoken perhaps once a year out of sheer obligation of the narrative. "All generations shall call me blessed" indeed.

And so, it should come as no surprise that when Catholics regard an image of his Lord and Savior's broken body hanging upon that tree, it becomes a proof of Christ's love for us, a blessed reproach for our sins, and a stern reminder of our own duty. In His cross we see our own, and in His wounds we find comfort for our own. Christ has made that foulest gibbet His yoke, that we may find courage in our own yokes, which are light and sweet in comparison.

Yet these things are invisible to the eyes of many, and instead they conclude only that it is some sick joke. Alas, that is truly the tragedy.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Budge' post='1360365' date='Aug 16 2007, 05:33 PM']One needs to preach the cross.....[/quote]
Not just the cross, but [b]Christ crucified[/b]. (1 Corinthians 1:23)
Still a stumbling block to the Jews and foolishness to the Greeks. And to Budge too, apparently.

As for your misinterpretation of the Second Commandment, we've already been over that umpteen times on here. Guess you need to explain to God how He was wrong about the cherubs on the Ark, etc.

Edited August 17, 2007 by Socrates

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1360130' date='Aug 16 2007, 01:22 PM']I still know of Christ's redemptive suffering for our sins, I just dont think the second commandment should be broken as a reminder.

Hebrews 6:6 applies to the Catholic crucifix.[/quote]

The second commandment is not broken by crucifixes. Back up your claims for once instead of repeating the same thing over and over without proof.

[quote]When Noah and his family were saved from the flood in the ark, where they escapists?[/quote]

Noah's being saved from the flood is the exact reverse of the rapture. Noah was left behind on earth while everyone else died.

Anyone who says that God doesn't allow the righteous to suffer is opposed to the Resurrection. Without death, there could be no resurrection.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1360333' date='Aug 16 2007, 06:13 PM']Theres nothing wrong with a cross. I have a sculpture of a cross right next to me.

Crucifix is differnet with false potrayals of Jesus {long hair when Bible makes clear Jewish men considered long hair a shame} {breaking second commandment} presenting him bleeding and dead, Satan must really love that.[/quote]
Budge, the Bible most certainly does NOT say that Jews considered long hair a shame. Nezerites (Samson, John the Baptist, etc.) had to have long hair. They were forbidden to cut it.

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1360532' date='Aug 16 2007, 07:13 PM']Budge, the Bible most certainly does NOT say that Jews considered long hair a shame. Nezerites (Samson, John the Baptist, etc.) had to have long hair. They were forbidden to cut it.[/quote]

Along with the display of crosses, add this to another one of Budge's extra-biblical beliefs.

[hoosieranna]

Why do the Suffering Christ and the Resurrected Christ HAVE to be separated? Both are part of the greatest gift that has even been given to humanity.

[knightec]

Christ's resurrection is focused on because without it his death is meaningless. By coming back from the dead Christ proved that through his father's love physical death can be overcome.

[hoosieranna]

nm

Edited August 17, 2007 by Nadezhda

[XIX]

[quote name='Nadezhda' post='1360687' date='Aug 16 2007, 08:54 PM']Why do the Suffering Christ and the Resurrected Christ HAVE to be separated? Both are part of the greatest gift that has even been given to humanity.[/quote]
I concur. I think the argument is that protestants *supposedly* don't ever think about the crucifix, or maybe it's just that they think we shouldn't worry about the crucifix but the risen Jesus. I say supposedly because I don't know how true or false that is.

Plus a bunch of us are debating with Budge, who thinks the crucifix is wrong.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Dismas' post='1360499' date='Aug 16 2007, 08:35 PM']But it isn't just the crucifix though, is it.

Sure, in the Catholic home, I am sure to find a crucifix in each bedroom, with this/last year's palm placed behind it.

In these same homes, I can be sure to find the Last Supper in the kitchen or dining room.

I am sure to find a Madonna and Child in a communal room or even the the bedrooms.

Plenty of Catholic homes have creche scenes displayed outside, year round. From Advent to Epiphany, there is bound to be another Nativity placed within for all to see. As the season progresses, more figures are placed about the stable.

It also would also be fitting to find such things as scenes of the Annunciation, the Agony in the Garden, the Wedding of Cana, and numerous other such things.

It is not the crucifix alone that galls the Protestant, but something deeper. Just as it is not the relics in and of themselves that angers the Protestant, for many treasure their history as well. It is not the use of seven Sacraments that bothers the Protestant's sensibilities so much as what they imply. Even the ire drawn from our love of Mary has nothing to do with a personal loathing of her. It can be summed up in one word: [b]Matter[/b].

Matter, and the flesh which is part of matter, confounds the Protestant. At the very heart of the Protest is the repudiation of matter, embodied by their embrace of Sola Fides. With the total exclusion of Works from one's salvation, the whole Mystery of our flesh is lost. Love is then seen only in spirit, and is forgotten that for us humans, it is to be wrought on our flesh. We might as well have been made as ignorant and thick-witted angels, for matter is scorned as immaterial.

With human cooperation in works stripped of meaning, where is the beauty of the Fiat or the Magnificat? I assure you, this is the source of that disconnect.

Without the Theology of the Body, the poignancy of the Incarnation becomes only Condescension. The humanness of Christ is thrown into a gutter. And thus in Nestorian logic, the uncomfortable name "Mary" is spoken perhaps once a year out of sheer obligation of the narrative. "All generations shall call me blessed" indeed.

And so, it should come as no surprise that when Catholics regard an image of his Lord and Savior's broken body hanging upon that tree, it becomes a proof of Christ's love for us, a blessed reproach for our sins, and a stern reminder of our own duty. In His cross we see our own, and in His wounds we find comfort for our own. Christ has made that foulest gibbet His yoke, that we may find courage in our own yokes, which are light and sweet in comparison.

Yet these things are invisible to the eyes of many, and instead they conclude only that it is some sick joke. Alas, that is truly the tragedy.[/quote]
Dismas, that was beautiful. Very deep.

[quote name='Nadezhda' post='1360687' date='Aug 16 2007, 09:54 PM']Why do the Suffering Christ and the Resurrected Christ HAVE to be separated? Both are part of the greatest gift that has even been given to humanity.[/quote]
Amen.

[Sirklawd]

[quote name='Dismas' post='1360499' date='Aug 16 2007, 07:35 PM']But it isn't just the crucifix though, is it.

Sure, in the Catholic home, I am sure to find a crucifix in each bedroom, with this/last year's palm placed behind it.

In these same homes, I can be sure to find the Last Supper in the kitchen or dining room.

I am sure to find a Madonna and Child in a communal room or even the the bedrooms.

Plenty of Catholic homes have creche scenes displayed outside, year round. From Advent to Epiphany, there is bound to be another Nativity placed within for all to see. As the season progresses, more figures are placed about the stable.

It also would also be fitting to find such things as scenes of the Annunciation, the Agony in the Garden, the Wedding of Cana, and numerous other such things.

It is not the crucifix alone that galls the Protestant, but something deeper. Just as it is not the relics in and of themselves that angers the Protestant, for many treasure their history as well. It is not the use of seven Sacraments that bothers the Protestant's sensibilities so much as what they imply. Even the ire drawn from our love of Mary has nothing to do with a personal loathing of her. It can be summed up in one word: [b]Matter[/b].

Matter, and the flesh which is part of matter, confounds the Protestant. At the very heart of the Protest is the repudiation of matter, embodied by their embrace of Sola Fides. With the total exclusion of Works from one's salvation, the whole Mystery of our flesh is lost. Love is then seen only in spirit, and is forgotten that for us humans, it is to be wrought on our flesh. We might as well have been made as ignorant and thick-witted angels, for matter is scorned as immaterial.

With human cooperation in works stripped of meaning, where is the beauty of the Fiat or the Magnificat? I assure you, this is the source of that disconnect.

Without the Theology of the Body, the poignancy of the Incarnation becomes only Condescension. The humanness of Christ is thrown into a gutter. And thus in Nestorian logic, the uncomfortable name "Mary" is spoken perhaps once a year out of sheer obligation of the narrative. "All generations shall call me blessed" indeed.

And so, it should come as no surprise that when Catholics regard an image of his Lord and Savior's broken body hanging upon that tree, it becomes a proof of Christ's love for us, a blessed reproach for our sins, and a stern reminder of our own duty. In His cross we see our own, and in His wounds we find comfort for our own. Christ has made that foulest gibbet His yoke, that we may find courage in our own yokes, which are light and sweet in comparison.

Yet these things are invisible to the eyes of many, and instead they conclude only that it is some sick joke. Alas, that is truly the tragedy.[/quote]

This is an excellent response. Unfortunately, it will probably be ignored. :/
But it has certainly reached me and got me thinking about things I havn't thought about before, so thanks!

[thessalonian]

Ya that was a great piece. Thanks for drawing my attention to it. Hammer meet head of nail.