Christians Are Still Being Presecuted By Catholics

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='Budge' post='1371770' date='Aug 27 2007, 02:33 PM']We had Hispanic families in my last church. They were good strong Christians, they rejected this paganism for what it was.

They did not celebrate these things.[/quote]

This is a blatantly racist sentiment.

[Budge]

Where?

They were Hispanic, they were good Christians...and friends of mine. They were from Mexico and rejected Day of the Dead and the rest of it. I talked to them about this stuff. We had missionaries from all over in my church, not every Mexican defends these cultural "traditions"

Sheesh. What liberal PC code did I break this time without even realizing it?

[Budge]

[quote]Are you implying that the Catholic Church as a whole supports this? If you are, you are sadly mistaken.[/quote]

Show me ONE Vatican DECREE that abhors it or telling them to STOP IT.

[Budge]

[quote]that desire only begins to spring up when they attack your culture and faith and try to break up your families with false gospels.[/quote]
[b]
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a manfs enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)[/b]

[jeffpugh]

In other words, Budge has come to make noise, cause I'm not feeling the love...

[Aloysius]

[quote name='Budge' post='1372056' date='Aug 27 2007, 11:39 PM'][b]
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a manfs enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)[/b][/quote]
and if these missionaries had the true gospel, I would be all for that. the true gospel does truly bring a sword of division. But just because you're dividing families and splitting up cultures does not mean you are preaching the true gospel; you could go preach an anarchist gospel and get the same result. as it stands, your "missionaries" preach a false gospel which is abhorant to Christ and harmful to true Christian culture, and that is why their attacks against these families are unjust and evil.

when you were called "racist" in an earlier post, you should have been called "ethnocentric", in the sense that you have an ethnocentric bias for modern American culture. it is only good if it takes the judaized heretical iconoclastic version of american protestant christianity; and these hispanics are good because they've accepted your american protestant standards.

[Farsight one]

[quote name='Budge' post='1372056' date='Aug 27 2007, 10:39 PM'][b]
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a manfs enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)[/b][/quote]
If you wanna quote that, then I gotta wonder why you have a beef with these "Catholics" tearing down other churches at all? They're clearly not bring peace, but rather a sword, exactly as your verse says.

[Budge]

You know what is interesting about this thread, is not one Catholic poster here is upset that their co-religionists are thugs out burning churches.

If I knew of fund. Baptists doing this Id be disgusted and have written threads on my board against Baptists behaving badly...

What is the deal with the folks here they feel they have to take the defensive position over everyone that is Catholic?

[Aloysius]

because quite honestly, I personally sympathize with them, and if people came into a tight-knit community like that that I belonged to and started tearing it apart with lies, I'd have a hard time not joining the mobs. these "churches" are evil institutions of satan attacking a Christian culture with american protestant heresy.

the problem with your missionaries is that they do not understand the culture, nor do they attempt to understand it. they targeted it, not studied it. and targeted through the lense of their whitebred american protestant ethnocentrism, it seemed pagan and heathenous, in need of the enlightenment of american style modern worship.

honestly, I shed no tears over the buildings being torn down. I think it has gone to the extreme when violence occurs, but tearing down buildings which are centers of a sect which is attacking the true religion and breaking up families? eh... makes sense to me actually.

I'm not just taking the defensive position because they're Catholic; I'm saying I'd likely do the same thing they're doing if I was in their shoes. I hope they can expel these foreign invaders some day, or convert them.

[Budge]

[quote]because quite honestly, I personally sympathize with them,[/quote]

Honestly, thats sad. In other words you sympathize with thugs that hurt people and burn down their churches simply because of what they believed.
[quote]and if people came into a tight-knit community like that that I belonged to and started tearing it apart with lies, I'd have a hard time not joining the mobs.[/quote]

Tearing what apart? They arent violent, they preach Gods Word, and thats that.

You think people because of what they SAY and BELIEVE should have mobs coming for them?


[quote]these "churches" are evil institutions of satan attacking a Christian culture with american protestant heresy.[/quote]\


Wow that rips the veil off the "seperated brethern" talk doesnt it.

Youre helping my case when I say that ecumenicalism is Rome's iron fist in a velvet glove, I suppose at least you are being honest.
[quote]the problem with your missionaries is that they do not understand the culture, nor do they attempt to understand it.[/quote]

Who cares about culture? Is [u]culture[/u] supposed to supercede Christianity?
Besides why do you think it is only white Americans preaching the gospel down there? There are plenty of Latin Americans who have been converted to Christ preaching it!

[quote]they targeted it, not studied it. and targeted through the lense of their whitebred american protestant ethnocentrism, it seemed pagan and heathenous, in need of the enlightenment of american style modern worship.[/quote]

You speak like a liberal with all this multi-cultural talk. The race card is always a convienent one to supress free speech. Im sorry but calling down spirits whether if a white college WASP girl does it or a Latin American indigenious person does it, is WRONG ANYWHERE.
[quote]honestly, I shed no tears over the buildings being torn down. I think it has gone to the extreme when violence occurs, but tearing down buildings which are centers of a sect which is attacking the true religion and breaking up families? eh... makes sense to me actually.[/quote]

Thats sick.
[quote]I hope they can expel these foreign invaders some day, or convert them.[/quote]

There are millions of Mexicans, Brazilians and Latin Americans who have converted to Christianity and are ex-Catholic, they are NOT foreign invaders.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Grasping at straws...

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='HollyDolly' post='1371713' date='Aug 27 2007, 04:00 PM']Extra Ecclesiam, These people who blend mayan beliefs and Catholicism
are not good Catholics.I'm not sure what faith the ancient germanic tribes of Bavaria and Swabia practiced,but there was never any hint of it in any of the catholic devotions practiced by my dad's family. These people were not given the proper religious instruction,because if they had ,they would have given up their pagan beliefs.

Yes,the evvangelicals may have confused the culture with these peoples faith,
however these people donot want to give up the ancient beliefs and have blended them with the Catholic faith, very similar to voodoo.

I seem to recall that the jesuits in China and clergy elsewhere have gotten into trouble
because they blend the Catholic faith with native stuff to incultureate the people and make it more acceptable to the natives and i guess more likely to convert them.
This is wrong. The holy martyers of Uganda who have a feast in the Church died because they would not give up their faith. Like these evangelicals they too were harrased and even killed for trying to spread the gospel of Jesus,not some watered down mishmash to make people happy.

As far as false gospel Aloysius is concerned,even if they use the KIng james version of the bible,it is still the New testament of Jesus and the Holy Apostles.
If these people are so worried about these evangelicals,then they,the local leaders need to go to the local parish and tell the priest or whoever that the people need classes in their faith so they do not fall prey to them,that they can defend the faith.
This is I feel really more of a power stuff that a religious one and the local community leaders are using religion as an excuse to cover up what is reallly behind the attacks.[/quote]

the Jesuit issue in China was resolved. Pius XII decided that the Chinese Catholics were allowed to praise Confucius and their ancestors, as long as it was done in a non-religious way (ie. don't ask them for favors, etc.).


the Day of the Dead is not really pagan, although it does have pagan origins. it is not a catholic Holiday. im not sure how much paganism exists in Mexico. there is nothing wrong with keeping your culture, and adopting Catholicism. the only problem is when you blend Catholicism with Pagan beliefs itself. it is quite appropriate to adopt old festivals or practices to Catholicism.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1372384' date='Aug 28 2007, 05:08 PM']the Day of the Dead is not really pagan, although it does have pagan origins. it is not a catholic Holiday. im not sure how much paganism exists in Mexico. there is nothing wrong with keeping your culture, and adopting Catholicism. the only problem is when you blend Catholicism with Pagan beliefs itself. it is quite appropriate to adopt old festivals or practices to Catholicism.[/quote]

I don't know much about this day, but is it celebrated the same day as All Saints' Day (1 Nov)? If it has been incorporated into that, I see nothing wrong with it, provided it has not retained the actual pagan beliefs. In fact, it seems like it would be quite suited to being adapted to fit with All Saints, though again, I know little about it.

[Archaeology cat]

Okay, I just re-read that article. I do think the violence has gone too far, and indeed shouldn't have happened at all. I also noted that this article begins with the assumption that these celebrations are pagan and hedonistic, when it may not necessarily be the case. Or it could be that there is nothing wrong with the celebration itself, but that this particular area is corrupting it, I don't know. I do think, from this article, that the disagreements, which led to violence, are in large part due to a misunderstanding of the beliefs on the part of Protestants, and overreacting on both sides.

[Aloysius]

Budge, all you did was prove my point that you do not understand the culture. You call them "thugs" because they are different than you and result to a more dirct approach than picking up a picket sign, because they still do what men have always done when their cultures were attacked (Christian men as well).

Their culture is now inherently Christian, it has been infused with Christianity. These protestants have a false gospel attempting to lead people astray, to lead them to be seperated.

The seperated brethren thing is not a load of hooey, they indeed are seperated brethren. when they do the work of the devil in attacking good Christian Society and Culture, however, they open themselves to more harsh words from my perspective.

They are not sharing the gospel; they are luring people away from the true faith with false promises of wealth, they are attempting to turn them into american (US) style individualists when it comes to religion. It's not just a KJV bible and a slightly scewed message, it's a message that says "abandon all that is beautiful about your culture because it is strange ot us" and "seperate yourself from the oppressive intricate unity of your communities and follow an individualistic relationship with Jesus"... the "Jesus" they peddel is nothing more than a what-you-want-him-to-be imaginary friend, though.

this is not about santeria, from what I can tell. if it was an issue of the small sect of santeria, I would be on budge's side in wanting it rid of. But these are simply good and beautiful cultural practices which have been redirected towards Christ. If you side with budge's pet missionaries on stuff like the day of the dead, you might as well side with fundies on stuff like Christmas, because that was the redirection of the Winter Solstice; or The Nativity of St. John the Baptist, the redirection of the Summer Solstice.

[adt6247]

[quote name='Budge' post='1372356' date='Aug 28 2007, 12:17 PM']Youre helping my case when I say that ecumenicalism is Rome's iron fist in a velvet glove, I suppose at least you are being honest.[/quote]
Ecumenism has one -- and ONLY one -- goal: to bring schismatic and heretical sects back in line with Rome, so they may achieve salvation. Many members of the hierarchy are liberal themselves, and have a desire to preach claptrap that amounts to universalism, but the Catholic Church is the one and only Church of Christ on earth. No one else can legitimately make that claim. Even the Eastern Orthodox, who have valid apostolic authority, are separated from us in a state of schism -- and hopefully this will be corrected in our lifetime.

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote]you might as well side with fundies on stuff like Christmas, because that was the redirection of the Winter Solstice; or The Nativity of St. John the Baptist, the redirection of the Summer Solstice.[/quote]

On other boards [i]"I believe"[/i] Budge has stated wearing slacks, jewerly etc... is evil, correct me if I am wrong, Budge.

Not to mention that one of the moderator's on her board has even gone to the extent of claiming that visiting your loved one's at their grave site is nemocrancy.

Edited August 28, 2007 by "Kyrie eleison"

[Budge]

[quote]Budge, all you did was prove my point that you do not understand the culture. [u]You call them "thugs" because they are different than you and result to a more dirct approach than picking up a picket sign, because they still do what men have always done when their cultures were attacked (Christian men as well).[/u][/quote]

Well going by your logic, then Americans could burn down Catholic churches {not defending this behavior at all like you are!!} since they came to a Prot nation!

Cant you see what youre defending here? What is wrong with you fella? People that committ arson, over someone saying something they dont "like" are THUGS.

Oh by the way there are Bible Christians born again, and living for Christ and rejecting paganism who are NOT AMERICANS and many are indeed Latin American, a weird hole in your logic that seems to be constantly cropping up.

Edited August 28, 2007 by Budge

[Budge]

[quote]On other boards "I believe" Budge has stated wearing slacks, jewerly etc... is evil, correct me if I am wrong, Budge.[/quote]

What does this have to do with the topic at hand?


Where did you get that stuff, or is that from your caricature of a fundies in your head. I havent talked about either issue on here at all. I believe in modest dress and for a woman that can be pants....depending on the circumstances.

[quote]Not to mention that one of the moderator's on her board has even gone to the extent of claiming that visiting your loved one's at their grave site is nemocrancy.[/quote]


I checked with Tan who used to participate here, and YES, Tan still holds that you are NECROMANTICS venerating the dead "officially" and dabbling with "familiar spirits"--Tan ex-Phatmasser.

Edited August 28, 2007 by Budge

[prose]

[quote name='Budge' post='1372331' date='Aug 28 2007, 09:13 AM']You know what is interesting about this thread, is not one Catholic poster here is upset that their co-religionists are thugs out burning churches.

If I knew of fund. Baptists doing this Id be disgusted and have written threads on my board against Baptists behaving badly...

What is the deal with the folks here they feel they have to take the defensive position over everyone that is Catholic?[/quote]

I am not upset because they are not Catholic. Just because you call yourself something does not make one that. If someone is not in line with Rome and is not practicing Catholicism, they are not Catholic. No matter what they call themselves. You said yourself they are practicing some sort of pagan religion mixed with Catholicism. That is not Catholic, and therefore they are not Catholic.

They are not my "co-religionist".