Victim Mentality

[Jaime]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1383926' date='Sep 11 2007, 11:01 PM']"I've had a rough day, and I hate the f***in' Eagles, man!"

"That's it! Get the f*** outta my cab!"

~ from [i]The Big Lebowski[/i][/quote]

Ok that was really funny!!

[XIX]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1383907' date='Sep 11 2007, 11:40 PM']"Get Over It," by the Eagles

I turn on the tube and what do I see
A whole lotta people cryin' "Don't blame me"
They point their crooked little fingers at everybody else
Spend all their time feelin' sorry for themselves
Victim of this, victim of that
Your momma's too thin; your daddy's too fat

Get over it
Get over it
All this whinin' and cryin' and pitchin' a fit
Get over it, get over it

You say you haven't been the same since you had your little crash
But you might feel better if I gave you some cash
The more I think about it, Old Billy was right
Let's kill all the lawyers, kill 'em tonight
You don't want to work, you want to live like a king
But the big, bad world doesn't owe you a thing

Get over it
Get over it
If you don't want to play, then you might as well split
Get over it, Get over it

It's like going to confession every time I hear you speak
You're makin' the most of your losin' streak
Some call it sick, but I call it weak
You drag it around like a ball and chain
You wallow in the guilt; you wallow in the pain
You wave it like a flag, you wear it like a crown
Got your mind in the gutter, bringin' everybody down
Complain about the present and blame it on the past
I'd like to find your inner child and kick its little ass

Get over it
Get over it
All this bitchin' and moanin' and pitchin' a fit
Get over it, get over it

Get over it
Get over it
It's gotta stop sometime, so why don't you quit
Get over it, get over it

Great lyrics![/quote]
In the Stanley Cup playoffs, they played that song at Scotiabank Place after the Devils score late in game 7 of the 2003 Eastern Conference Finals to take a 3-2 lead. Friesen from Marshall with 2:14 to go. The Devils held on for the 3-2 win and went to the Finals, where they beat the Ducks in game 7 for the Cup.

------

Anyhoo, being a victim is no excuse for letting a situation defeat you. Even if you are mugged and beaten, that is a stupid reason for making no effort to recover from that event. You are a victim all the way, but that doesn't mean you should concede defeat and go eat some worms.

[XIX]

woah triple post?

Edited September 12, 2007 by XIX

[XIX]

[quote]There is a difference between venting and victim mentality. Victim mentality of most often a pattern of behavior, and happens over and over. Venting or seeing advice may happen often but the attitudes and reactions are usually different if someone says "get over it." A venter will usually say something along the lines of "I've tried but..." A victim will cry foul "You don't understand! Stop attacking me! You're being rude/uncharitable/etc."[/quote]
I concur, for the most part. Though I don't know you can't really judge a person's mentality based on a few emotional remarks. Suppose you were to yell at someone to stop judging you because you were flustered and couldn't think of anything better to say. Or you were under some sort of emotional duress. I guess all that I'm saying is, be careful who you accuse of being a victim (though I'm sure you probably know that).

[IcePrincessKRS]

I don't disagree, thats why I noted that the victim mentality is usually a [i]pattern of behavior[/i]. You don't necessarily notice it the first time you see it, or even the second. But when you realize its a pattern... There can be genuine misunderstanding, of course, which result in the same sort of responses, my examples were pretty generalized.

[XIX]

[quote name='abercius24' post='1383818' date='Sep 11 2007, 09:55 PM']School yard analogy; six types of people:
1. The strong guy who bullies the weak kid
2. The strong guy who stops the fight
3. The spectator who roots to encourage the bully ("Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!")
4. The spectator who feels sorry for the weak kid
5. The weak kid who fights back, but gets beat up anyways
6. The weak kid who stands there and cries

Who were you and how does that relate to this discussion?

I was number 5, which is why I have a tendency to look out for and sympathize with those of a victim mentality, but I also have a tendency to really enjoy humiliating bullies -- which can be very dangerous as a Christian. (Kung Fu changed my life!)[/quote]
There may be some truth to that, but such classifications can be difficult. If I wanted to get technical, I could say that in a typical schoolyard of 100 kids, there are normally 100 different kinds of personalities.

I'd say I spent a sufficient amount of time as #4, 5, 6, and dabbled a little in 1 and 2. Also choice 7, the guy who is relieved that it's someone else and not me. I was a little bit of a jerk in grade school. Of course, this was all pre-conversion so a lot of this doesn't even apply to me anymore. Deo gratias. Sewiously.

In high school (post conversion) I had a friend (a crush, actually) who was essentially bullied by black hearted lust mongers. She gave in to them, and the fact that she did is perhaps the only thing I truly regret about high school. I was kinda the weak guy who tried to stop the fight by trying to nudge her towards chastity. But, long story short, I was overpowered by her not-too-religious friends and her lust mongering boyfriends. I wish I had a chance, and I still pray for her. Maybe if I had a better idea how to act around cute girls and how to deal with these types of situations, I could have had more of an effect. Fact is, I went to an all-boys school and I wasn't a player who tried to smooth-talk every third girl I came across. So that made it hard to do anything when I came across a situation involving her.

But sometimes I seriously wish I could go back in time and do that part over. I wish I was as smart then as I am now. Not that I'm a genius or anything, but I have a better idea of what not to do. At least I think so.

I wouldn't call myself a victim, I just had some crud to deal with and get through. Maybe it shouldn't have been that way, but it was so I had to deal with it. Complaining isn't inherently bad, it can be a good thing if you are just venting, but it shouldn't be used as a crutch or as a way out of problems. If you are unemployed, complaining might help relieve the stress a bit. Which is good. But it won't get you a job.

Well there's a nice tangent for you all.

[Norseman82]

I think this whole thread is going in the wrong direction.

There is one question that has not been asked but should be, and is paramount and a prerequisite for [i]any[/i] discussion on this issue from a Christian perspective:

[i]How did Jesus treat victims?[/i]

This is not just some soppy 15-second soundbite; we can go to bible and pull up numerous examples of stories from Jesus' life and other biblical principles.

OK, I'll start.

[quote]As He drew near Jericho a blind man at the side of the road begging. Hearing a crowd go by the man asked, 'What is that?" The answer came that Jesus of Nazareth was passing by. He shouted out, 'Jesus, Son of David, have pity on me!' Those in the lead sternly ordered him to be quiet, but he cried out all the more, 'Son of David, have pity on me!' Jesus halted and ordered that he be brought to Him. When he had come close, Jesus asked him, 'What do you want me to do for you?' 'Lord', he answered, 'I want to see'. Jesus said to him, 'Receive your sight. Your faith has healed you.' (Luke 18:35-42)[/quote]

Let's break this down and analyze this.

Did Jesus call the blind man a whiner or otherwise mock him? Did He tell him to "get over it"? To "grow up"? That he needed to recognize his "complicity in the situation" or that he was "ego-centric" with a "childish attitude"? Was he lectured that others have it "worse than him", that he should just shut up and bear his cross like a man? Was he lectured on the value of redemptive suffering? Was he told to just "offer it up" to spring a few souls out of purgatory, or to get therapy to learn to accept the situation? (Sad to say, some of the above quotes were actually lifted from this phorum on recent heated threads).

No. Jesus had pity on the man and cured him.

Discuss, and bring in some more biblical examples to discuss. I know we're not [i]sola scriptura[/i], but we're not [i]nulla scriptura[/i] either.

Oh, and abercius, I think I was a number 5 as well, and instead of kung fu it was weightlifting, hockey, and kickboxing workouts. Home life was a different story, that made me a survivor, with a lot of rough edges and tough skin, but I learned how to deal with people and situations from the proverbial "other side of the tracks" and would never be critical of someone's ability to carry their cross unless I myself carried a heavier cross over a more difficult path.

Edited September 12, 2007 by Norseman82

[mariahLVzJP2]

great post above! as someone has already pointed out, some people have been pretty edgy lately!

[abercius24]

[quote name='XIX' post='1383942' date='Sep 11 2007, 11:16 PM']Anyhoo, being a victim is no excuse for letting a situation defeat you. Even if you are mugged and beaten, that is a stupid reason for making no effort to recover from that event. You are a victim all the way, but that doesn't mean you should concede defeat and go eat some worms.[/quote]

St. Therese of Liseaux speaks of suffering a lot in her book. One of the most profound statements she makes is that a victim multiplies their emotional suffering tenfold more than they should as a result of their persecution. I've thought about this statement quite a bit and I've come to the conclusion that people do this because they refuse to accept their suffering. They basically refuse to recognize the reality of their place as a victim, and instead, create an overly disasterous and romanticized version of themselves. It takes time and prayer to learn to accept suffering.

I should also say that people who do not approach the suffering of others with patience only push them further into romanticizing their pain. And for those who don't understand how paralyzing suffering can be, they are only setting themselves up to crumble underneath the suffering they themselves will someday endure. As St. Paul says, suffering comes to everyone.

Edited September 12, 2007 by abercius24

[kateri05]

[quote]Did Jesus call the blind man a whiner or otherwise mock him? Did He tell him to "get over it"? To "grow up"? That he needed to recognize his "complicity in the situation" or that he was "ego-centric" with a "childish attitude"? Was he lectured that others have it "worse than him", that he should just shut up and bear his cross like a man? Was he lectured on the value of redemptive suffering? Was he told to just "offer it up" to spring a few souls out of purgatory, or to get therapy to learn to accept the situation?[/quote]

i agree. however, its also important to note what Jesus doesn't say. he says, what's wrong? ok, now its fixed, go about your business. not in a rude way obviously, but notice that Jesus doesn't first ask for a blow blow whine fest about all this guy's problem.


Jesus responds with charity, and so should we. However, He is also honest AND upfront about the fact that suffering needs to be accepted. not everyone who comes to Him is healed and sometimes, people don't get the answers that they "want" or think they "deserve" - the rich man who finds out he has to give it all away to follow him, and the Samaritan woman who Jesus says He's not there to preach to primarily (remember, dogs shouldn't feed from the table of Israel?)

part of comforting the sorrowful, a spiritual work of mercy, is compassion and understanding, but the Truth needs to make its way in as well, that sometimes, we don't know why things stink so badly, but that we must trust that God has some plan for all of it.

[Innocent]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1383907' date='Sep 12 2007, 09:10 AM']"Get Over It," by the Eagles

I turn on the tube and what do I see
A whole lotta people cryin' "Don't blame me"
They point their crooked little fingers at everybody else
Spend all their time feelin' sorry for themselves
Victim of this, victim of that
Your momma's too thin; your daddy's too fat

Get over it
Get over it
All this whinin' and cryin' and pitchin' a fit
Get over it, get over it

You say you haven't been the same since you had your little crash
But you might feel better if I gave you some cash
The more I think about it, Old Billy was right
Let's kill all the lawyers, kill 'em tonight
You don't want to work, you want to live like a king
But the big, bad world doesn't owe you a thing

Get over it
Get over it
If you don't want to play, then you might as well split
Get over it, Get over it

It's like going to confession every time I hear you speak
You're makin' the most of your losin' streak
Some call it sick, but I call it weak
You drag it around like a ball and chain
You wallow in the guilt; you wallow in the pain
You wave it like a flag, you wear it like a crown
Got your mind in the gutter, bringin' everybody down
Complain about the present and blame it on the past
I'd like to find your inner child and kick its little ass

Get over it
Get over it
All this bitchin' and moanin' and pitchin' a fit
Get over it, get over it

Get over it
Get over it
It's gotta stop sometime, so why don't you quit
Get over it, get over it

Great lyrics![/quote]

Hey, thanks!

I was slipping into a depressed mood just now and somehow I got out of it when I read this song. I think I should read it every day!

[abercius24]

[quote name='kateri05' post='1384008' date='Sep 12 2007, 01:40 AM']i agree. however, its also important to note what Jesus doesn't say. he says, what's wrong? ok, now its fixed, go about your business. not in a rude way obviously, but notice that Jesus doesn't first ask for a blow blow whine fest about all this guy's problem.
Jesus responds with charity, and so should we. However, He is also honest AND upfront about the fact that suffering needs to be accepted. not everyone who comes to Him is healed and sometimes, people don't get the answers that they "want" or think they "deserve" - the rich man who finds out he has to give it all away to follow him, and the Samaritan woman who Jesus says He's not there to preach to primarily (remember, dogs shouldn't feed from the table of Israel?)

part of comforting the sorrowful, a spiritual work of mercy, is compassion and understanding, but the Truth needs to make its way in as well, that sometimes, we don't know why things stink so badly, but that we must trust that God has some plan for all of it.[/quote]

Very good point!

[kateri05]

thanks

[Ash Wednesday]

I love the Big Lebowski. That rug really tied the room together, man.

I guess the difference between the blind man seeking Jesus' help and someone with a victim mentality is that the blind man had faith and a positive attitude. He sought help and pity from Jesus but he had faith that Jesus would heal him.

I generally won't tell someone to grow up or that they are being a big baby straight off the bat -- I'll try to help them and offer advice but generally people with a victim mentality don't really take suggestions and prefer to keep complaining for the sake of complaining. Generally it's this pushing of the envelope that makes people eventually lose patience and respond with "get over it!" Compassion is very important, but it's important to know your own limits. Some people ask you to give and give and give and in the end you're burnt out and unable to help them or anyone else for that matter.

I've had friends with victim mentality and generally my response in the end has always resulted in me keeping them at arm's length, because people can be emotionally draining at times when they come to you with problems with no sense of resolve or willingness to take anyone's advice. In both cases as I was conveniently "unavailable" they were left to their own devices and with nobody there to coddle them they eventually did pick themselves up and move on.

And don't they have a category for the kid on the playground that was off daydreaming or catching bugs?

Edited September 12, 2007 by Ash Wednesday

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' post='1384028' date='Sep 12 2007, 02:46 AM']I've had friends with victim mentality and generally my response in the end has always resulted in me keeping them at arm's length, because people can be emotionally draining at times when they come to you with problems with no sense of resolve or willingness to take anyone's advice.[/quote]
I think this is the big difference between being a victim and getting stuck in the mentality ... the thing I find most frustrating is the complaining just for the sake of complaining ... just so I"ll feel sorry for whatever awful situation has arisen. Venting is fine, and sometimes you need to do that, but when you're venting without the end goal of actually RESOLVING the situation ... I have no use for that.