Victim Mentality

[homeschoolmom]

It's one thing to have "why me?" days... everyone needs a good rant or a pity party for awhile... But... when it turns into "why is everyone else stopping me from being happy?" that it turns icky....

People make different choices and those choices have consequences and rewards to them. If you don't like where you are headed, make new and better choices.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1384281' date='Sep 12 2007, 03:09 PM']It's one thing to have "why me?" days... everyone needs a good rant or a pity party for awhile... But... when it turns into "why is everyone else stopping me from being happy?" that it turns icky....

People make different choices and those choices have consequences and rewards to them. If you don't like where you are headed, make new and better choices.[/quote]
Yep, and if you don't know or keep making the SAME bad choices go get professional help.!!

[Sojourner]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1384281' date='Sep 12 2007, 01:09 PM']It's one thing to have "why me?" days... everyone needs a good rant or a pity party for awhile... But... when it turns into "why is everyone else stopping me from being happy?" that it turns icky....

People make different choices and those choices have consequences and rewards to them. If you don't like where you are headed, make new and better choices.[/quote]


And frankly, sometimes it's more charitable to let someone experience the full force of the consequences of their actions than to continue to make things easy for them. If they never experience the consequences of their choices, they never learn to make better choices, and they're stuck still whining about how everyone else didn't do what they were "supposed to" do.

Edited September 12, 2007 by Terra Firma

[kateri05]

[quote]I took mine on Monday...[/quote]

i prefer thursdays

[quote]And frankly, sometimes it's more charitable to let someone experience the full force of the consequences of their actions than to continue to make things easy for them. If they never experience the consequences of their choices, they never learn to make better choices, and they're stuck still whining about how everyone else didn't do what they were "supposed to" do.[/quote]

let me just say, that as a jr. high teacher who has parents who treats their students this way, IT IS SO FRUSTRATING!! i'm trying to get these kids ready for high school, and thus life, and the constant babying of their 13 year old, how they can't handle be organized, etc etc is really only hurting the kids, because they're not learning to face the consequences of their own actions!

[Sojourner]

[quote name='kateri05' post='1384293' date='Sep 12 2007, 01:21 PM']i prefer thursdays
let me just say, that as a jr. high teacher who has parents who treats their students this way, IT IS SO FRUSTRATING!! i'm trying to get these kids ready for high school, and thus life, and the constant babying of their 13 year old, how they can't handle be organized, etc etc is really only hurting the kids, because they're not learning to face the consequences of their own actions![/quote]
It's even more frustrating in an adult ...

[kateri05]

that is true and i don't disagree, it just frustrates me that the ADULTS are the ones encouraging and shaping their children to become dysfunctional adults that the rest of us will have to deal with one day

[Sojourner]

[quote name='kateri05' post='1384298' date='Sep 12 2007, 01:30 PM']that is true and i don't disagree, it just frustrates me that the ADULTS are the ones encouraging and shaping their children to become dysfunctional adults that the rest of us will have to deal with one day [/quote]
Yes. That is, in all seriousness, a travesty.

Personally I think some of it comes from our society's faulty conception of suffering. Because we see no value in suffering, it is the ultimate good to avoid all suffering -- that is the "pursuit of happyness." So you want your children to never suffer, even in little things. And they as adults then expect the same thing for themselves.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1384287' date='Sep 12 2007, 02:15 PM']

And frankly, sometimes it's more charitable to let someone experience the full force of the consequences of their actions than to continue to make things easy for them. If they never experience the consequences of their choices, they never learn to make better choices, and they're stuck still whining about how everyone else didn't do what they were "supposed to" do.[/quote]
I agree... I think it's wrong to constantly shield people from the consequences of their bad choices.

[Anomaly]

It's funny, reading this thread, and the others, it seems the flare-ups are based on the same behaviors.

Nobody in this thread has said that 'victim' people should ALWAYS be told to toughen up, but those that have said 'toughen up' have to have people respond 'but sometimes that's not helpful'. The 'toughen up' people then respond and defend their position, and the 'but that's not helpful' people defend themselves.

Bottom line, neither "side" is saying 'always'. Victim mentality is claiming to be a victim more often than reality is. Sometimes a 'toughen up' and kick in the butt is appropriate. Sometimes a shoulder or sympathetic ear is appropriate. God made us all different. Some people are better at butt kicking than handing out tissues. Some people are better at lending a shoulder than providing a push. I'm of the opinion that's why He made so many of us, He intended that not a single one of us would be 'all that and a bag of chips' by ourselves.




So. Anyone need a tissue. I'd suggest you ask Carrie before you ask me. If someone needs to get a kick in the butt to wake up, I'm the man for the job, I don't think that's Carrie's deal. But between Carrie and I, we just may provide what's needed.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1384304' date='Sep 12 2007, 01:35 PM']It's funny, reading this thread, and the others, it seems the flare-ups are based on the same behaviors.

Nobody in this thread has said that 'victim' people should ALWAYS be told to toughen up, but those that have said 'toughen up' have to have people respond 'but sometimes that's not helpful'. The 'toughen up' people then respond and defend their position, and the 'but that's not helpful' people defend themselves.

Bottom line, neither "side" is saying 'always'. Victim mentality is claiming to be a victim more often than reality is. Sometimes a 'toughen up' and kick in the butt is appropriate. Sometimes a shoulder or sympathetic ear is appropriate. God made us all different. Some people are better at butt kicking than handing out tissues. Some people are better at lending a shoulder than providing a push. I'm of the opinion that's why He made so many of us, He intended that not a single one of us would be 'all that and a bag of chips' by ourselves.
So. Anyone need a tissue. I'd suggest you ask Carrie before you ask me. If someone needs to get a kick in the butt to wake up, I'm the man for the job, I don't think that's Carrie's deal. But between Carrie and I, we just may provide what's needed.[/quote]
This may be the most sensible post I've read so far.

Do you hire out your butt-kicking services??

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1384308' date='Sep 12 2007, 02:37 PM']This may be the most sensible post I've read so far.

Do you hire out your butt-kicking services??
[/quote]
I'll butt kick you for free...

[Azriel]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1384304' date='Sep 12 2007, 01:35 PM']It's funny, reading this thread, and the others, it seems the flare-ups are based on the same behaviors.

Nobody in this thread has said that 'victim' people should ALWAYS be told to toughen up, but those that have said 'toughen up' have to have people respond 'but sometimes that's not helpful'. The 'toughen up' people then respond and defend their position, and the 'but that's not helpful' people defend themselves.

Bottom line, neither "side" is saying 'always'. Victim mentality is claiming to be a victim more often than reality is. Sometimes a 'toughen up' and kick in the butt is appropriate. Sometimes a shoulder or sympathetic ear is appropriate. God made us all different. Some people are better at butt kicking than handing out tissues. Some people are better at lending a shoulder than providing a push. I'm of the opinion that's why He made so many of us, He intended that not a single one of us would be 'all that and a bag of chips' by ourselves.
So. Anyone need a tissue. I'd suggest you ask Carrie before you ask me. If someone needs to get a kick in the butt to wake up, I'm the man for the job, I don't think that's Carrie's deal. But between Carrie and I, we just may provide what's needed.[/quote]

[Sojourner]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1384312' date='Sep 12 2007, 01:39 PM']I'll butt kick you for free...[/quote]
Thanks. I knew there was a reason I kept you around.

[homeschoolmom]

Okay... here's an example of setting someone up to feel like a victim... My neighbor and I were just talking about this this morning....

My neighbor's 10 year old daughter, R, has food allergies (peanuts, eggs, milk)... so, of course, she has an altered diet. Her grandmother is constantly coddling her. They were going to fly to Milwaukee because R has always wanted to fly... so, even though it was going to be a strain on Grandma's budget she wanted to take her... Not because it would be a nice birthday gift or whatnot... "Because, well... she's deprived of so much not being able to eat peanut butter and ice cream... " So, Grandma feels that she is owed this trip. Her mom, however, does not agree and they've been in quite a tiff about it. The mom, K, just sees it as the cards R was dealt... and she's trying to teach her to just live with it and not play the victim... Grandma, on the other hand, doesn't get it.

[Carrie]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1384304' date='Sep 12 2007, 03:35 PM']So. Anyone need a tissue. I'd suggest you ask Carrie before you ask me. If someone needs to get a kick in the butt to wake up, I'm the man for the job, I don't think that's Carrie's deal. But between Carrie and I, we just may provide what's needed.[/quote]
You know, if we went into business together, our little therapy center might be quite popular.

[homeschoolmom]

"Kick-butt and Hand Holder"... a new dramedy on ABC

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Carrie' post='1384318' date='Sep 12 2007, 03:49 PM']You know, if we went into business together, our little therapy center might be quite popular. [/quote]
It's almost perfect. I could kick some butts, and they'd go running to you to hold their hand and issue fibroid sheets of absorbent material. Meanwhile, you'd tell me which of your clients came running to you for a tissue and need posterial application of shoe leather. With the sliding scale fee program I previously described (we take whatever's in their wallet), just think how low our overhead would be with the need for a billing and collection department. I think it's a well rounded and efficiently integrated business model. Write it up as a business plan so we can get a commercial loan for a case of Keenex and two pairs safety toed work boots.

[Carrie]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1384347' date='Sep 12 2007, 04:43 PM']It's almost perfect. I could kick some butts, and they'd go running to you to hold their hand and issue fibroid sheets of absorbent material. Meanwhile, you'd tell me which of your clients came running to you for a tissue and need posterial application of shoe leather. With the sliding scale fee program I previously described (we take whatever's in their wallet), just think how low our overhead would be with the need for a billing and collection department. I think it's a well rounded and efficiently integrated business model. Write it up as a business plan so we can get a commercial loan for a case of Keenex and two pairs safety toed work boots.[/quote]
It's genius!

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1384347' date='Sep 12 2007, 04:43 PM']It's almost perfect. I could kick some butts, and they'd go running to you to hold their hand and issue fibroid sheets of absorbent material. Meanwhile, you'd tell me which of your clients came running to you for a tissue and need posterial application of shoe leather. With the sliding scale fee program I previously described (we take whatever's in their wallet), just think how low our overhead would be with the need for a billing and collection department. I think it's a well rounded and efficiently integrated business model. Write it up as a business plan so we can get a commercial loan for a case of Keenex and two pairs safety toed work boots.[/quote]

[Sojourner]

This is what I like about phatmass.

Person A makes a statement.

Person B vigorously contests it.

Person A responds back, defending his/her original position.

Person B vigorously contests it.

A huge debate breaks out, with people taking sides and emphasizing the strength of their particular point in the argument.

Then, Person C, who has been a bit player in the entire exchange, comes out with a post about how everyone really agrees, if people would just listen to one another.

Everyone hails the genius of Person C, whose wisdom is clear from this statement.

There are a few funny comments made. Everyone laughs off the tension from earlier in the thread.

Then, someone says, "This is all very funny, but what about (insert statement here)."

And the whole cycle repeats.