friendofJPII Posted October 13, 2007 Posted October 13, 2007 To the members of other faiths who frequent this site: I would like to take this opportunity to apologize for the insensitive remarks made by some phatmassers recently on this site. You are most welcome here, and we (at least I) love you with the love our Lord. Our current Holy Father, as well as the late JPII have worked to strengthen unity and inter-faith relations, and would never condone the terminology some have used to address you on this site. Please feel welcome to read, comment, post, and pray with us. As you learn more about our faith, I hope we can learn more about you, as your presence is a precious gift to us. May God abundantly bless you and He leads you closer to himself! In Christ, JP
MissyP89 Posted October 13, 2007 Posted October 13, 2007 (edited) Well said, and agreed. Edited October 13, 2007 by MissyP89
alicemary Posted October 13, 2007 Posted October 13, 2007 Thank you. JPll opened doors that recently have been slammed shut. I was shocked and appalled at the attitutes of some phatmassers. Talk about total lack of charity and total lack of insight.
hyperdulia again Posted October 13, 2007 Posted October 13, 2007 As this thread is an explicit reference to me and the word "heretic" I would like to say I offer you my love and my brotherhood. I even offer you my deep and sincere sorrow if you are hurt by the word, but I don't retract its use. It has been used by saints and popes for millenia to describe persons who are in doctrinal error. It does not amount to a denial of the sincerity of your faith in Christ or even a denial that you are a Christian dear to the Great God and purchased by Him at the cost of His very life--it merely describes the doctrines you hold. Which bear not even the slightest connection to Tradition or the teachings of the Holy Bible.
Justin86 Posted October 13, 2007 Posted October 13, 2007 (edited) Just in case.... I don't want to kill anyone. Welcome to phatmass non-Catholics! Come to learn about our faith? You've got questions, the Pope's got answers. We'll just look 'em up for ya. Edited October 13, 2007 by Justin86
SarahB Posted October 13, 2007 Posted October 13, 2007 This is similar to my thread from awhile back where I apologized for the attitude of some of the non-Catholics on this board. I personally didn't take any offense. I have a great respect for the Catholic Church and for the people on here. Yes, sometimes things are said that I don't like, but I know that for the most part it is said out of love. It can be hard to get a tone across on a message board, and sometimes things come out differently than we would like. So, no hard feelings.
goldenchild17 Posted October 13, 2007 Posted October 13, 2007 [quote name='hyperdulia again' post='1401775' date='Oct 13 2007, 03:37 PM']As this thread is an explicit reference to me and the word "heretic" I would like to say I offer you my love and my brotherhood. I even offer you my deep and sincere sorrow if you are hurt by the word, but I don't retract its use. It has been used by saints and popes for millenia to describe persons who are in doctrinal error. It does not amount to a denial of the sincerity of your faith in Christ or even a denial that you are a Christian dear to the Great God and purchased by Him at the cost of His very life--it merely describes the doctrines you hold. Which bear not even the slightest connection to Tradition or the teachings of the Holy Bible.[/quote] Even though the word, per the terms of Phatmass, could very well apply to me (well more likely "schismatic" or a similar term) I fully agree with hyper.
PapaHilarious Posted October 13, 2007 Posted October 13, 2007 Nice post! It's good to remind ourselves once and awhile to have charity above all, even (or especially) when dialogging with those who may not agree.
hyperdulia again Posted October 13, 2007 Posted October 13, 2007 (edited) Is this really charitable? Or is it uncharitable holier than thou posturing? Edited October 13, 2007 by hyperdulia again
brendan1104 Posted October 13, 2007 Posted October 13, 2007 However, in charity, we must tell you that if you reject the Catholic Faith and do not submit to the Roman Pontiff and/or receive (valid) Baptism, then you will go to hell. This is unchangeable magisterial teaching, infallibly defined "from the chair" - [i]ex cathedra[/i] - at least nine (9) times, as follows: Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, Constitution 1, 1215, ex cathedra: [quote]“There is indeed one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which nobody at all is saved, in which Jesus Christ is both priest and sacrifice.”[/quote] Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, Nov. 18, 1302, ex cathedra: [quote]"With Faith urging us we are forced to believe and to hold the one, holy, Catholic Church and that, apostolic, and we firmly believe and simply confess this Church outside of which there is no salvation nor remission of sin… "Furthermore, we declare, say, define, and proclaim to every human creature that they by absolute necessity for salvation are entirely subject to the Roman Pontiff."[/quote] Pope Clement V, Council of Vienne, Decree # 30, 1311-1312, ex cathedra: [quote]“Since however there is for both regulars and seculars, for superiors and subjects, for exempt and non-exempt, one universal Church, outside of which there is no salvation, for all of whom there is one Lord, one faith, and one baptism…”[/quote] Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Sess. 8, Nov. 22, 1439, ex cathedra: [quote]“Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity.”[/quote] Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra: [quote]“The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”[/quote] Pope Leo X, Fifth Lateran Council, Session 11, Dec. 19, 1516, ex cathedra: [quote]“For, regulars and seculars, prelates and subjects, exempt and non-exempt, belong to the one universal Church, outside of which no one at all is saved, and they all have one Lord and one faith.”[/quote] Pope Pius IV, Council of Trent, “Iniunctum nobis,” Nov. 13, 1565, ex cathedra: [quote]“This true Catholic faith, outside of which no one can be saved… I now profess and truly hold…”[/quote] Pope Benedict XIV, Nuper ad nos, March 16, 1743, Profession of Faith: [quote]“This faith of the Catholic Church, without which no one can be saved, and which of my own accord I now profess and truly hold…”[/quote] Pope Pius IX, Vatican Council I, Session 2, Profession of Faith, 1870, ex cathedra: [quote]“This true Catholic faith, outside of which none can be saved, which I now freely profess and truly hold…”[/quote]
Noel's angel Posted October 13, 2007 Posted October 13, 2007 (edited) There are ways of saying things. It's called tact. Many of us seem to have lost that. *Crosses fingers and hopes this will end soon* Edited October 13, 2007 by Noel's angel
brendan1104 Posted October 13, 2007 Posted October 13, 2007 There is no debate about this one. The popes, our spiritual fathers, elected under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and given the power by Christ as His vicars and successors to St. Peter, have infallibly defined this. Interpetation or meaning cannot changed, it is DOGMA not discipline. It doesn't matter if you like it or agree with it or not. We must believe these things or, yes, become heretics and automatically excommunicate ourselves. That is the penalty. That's not being uncharitable, it's being realistic and in line with our holy mother the church church and her teaching.
Noel's angel Posted October 13, 2007 Posted October 13, 2007 As I said, there are WAYS of saying things that can make a person sound uncharitable.
PapaHilarious Posted October 13, 2007 Posted October 13, 2007 [quote name='Noel's angel' post='1401808' date='Oct 13 2007, 03:14 PM']There are ways of saying things. It's called tact. Many of us seem to have lost that.[/quote] Good observation. I love what St. Maximos the Confessor said (in [i]Patrologia Graeca[/i], Vol. XCI, col. 465C) about the lack of charity... [quote]Any other spirit, even in the face of real heresy, leads the would-be zealot to something as bad as heresy itself. That is, the betrayal of the prime Christian commandment of love.[/quote]
brendan1104 Posted October 13, 2007 Posted October 13, 2007 Real uncharitableness is letting someone be on their merry way to hell and NOT telling them the Truth.
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