Holy Hillary...

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Lena' post='1416771' date='Nov 9 2007, 08:25 PM']Not to sound like a broken record, but you're responding with my claim that the above article was simply conjecture by presenting another opinion article? Written by a college student and one that claims, no less, that [i]"A vote for Hillary is a vote to take America one step closer to the world that Orwell envisioned."[/i]

Now, that's what I call a statement cumbered by a personal bias.

I'm not strictly trying to champion Hillary's cause, but simply point out that not all news sources are creditable simply because they are aligned with what you personally believe. Also, your second source presents a pretty skewed picture of Hilary there, how does that lend credence to their words? It really writes with a specific agenda in mind.

And I don't understand how that quiz exactly relates to anything at all, except for the fact that everything is out of context and therefore cannot be completely understood and credited. This isn't some new and strange idea I'm presenting here.[/quote]


This isn't open court. Persons are free to take parts of information which is sourced, the 2nd article has many, and choose for themselves. The charge of "conjecture" does not equal falsehood, nor does the charge of bias.

This much is true however, and not up for debate Hillary Cinlton partakes in the mass murder of Millions of Unborn Children, the cult of death she belongs to in this country has murdered millions more than Russian communists every could have dreamt.

She and people like her are worse than communists, and even nazi's, she is an Pro-Abortionist.

Edited November 10, 2007 by KnightofChrist

[friendofJPII]

Since none of know her personally or the motives behind her political actions, I don't think it is charitable to assume she is evil. All people are good because everyone is created by God and shares in his divine life to some degree. I know lots of wonderful, loving, people who hold pro-abortion viewpoints (I"m not saying Hillary is loving or wonderful....just for the record, but I don't know her personally). My best friend is pro-choice, but she still has a big heart, and is more loyal and loving towards me than many of my conservative Christian friends, yet she is misguided on that issue. However, Hillary SHOULD NOT BE PRESIDENT!!! When we vote, we must look at the issues, and since she supports abortion-rights and tenets of the liberal agenda, as Catholics we should not even consider her. We can pray for her, tho, cuz Jesus loves her, just not vote for her! I don't know if she's a communist, but the entire left-wing of the democratic party are socialists!!

Edited November 10, 2007 by friendofJPII

[Lena]

[quote]She and people like her are worse than communists, and even nazi's, she is an Pro-Abortionist.[/quote]

Yes, fanaticism is disturbing and usually disruptive.

On that note, must finish a paper for tonight. Otherwise, I'd start bickering.

[Jaime]

Look I don't see a single person advocating for voting for her.

Someone please answer my question

What is the proposed litmus test to see if someone actually prays? If there isn't one, then there's no debate here kids.

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1416793' date='Nov 9 2007, 09:15 PM']Look I don't see a single person advocating for voting for her.

Someone please answer my question

What is the proposed litmus test to see if someone actually prays? If there isn't one, then there's no debate here kids.[/quote]


I think we are discussing Hillary's remarks and our reaction to them in light of her political/activity voting record. If a public person like Hillary makes a public statement...then we have a right to comment. Is it a contradiction that she prays AND is pro-choice....she may or may not be sincere, we don't know, but I think everyone agrees that the fact that she says she "prays" does not mean she is worthy of our vote, or we should view her in a more favorable light. Some people will be misled and think "Oh, Hillary prays, she can't be that bad, it's okay to vote for her, she's a good Christian like me." Such people, imo, have 1/2 a brain, but still there are people who would reason that way.

Edited November 10, 2007 by friendofJPII

[Jaime]

[quote]Is it a contradiction that she prays AND is pro-choice[/quote]

Really

Show me how

and not in any flowery self indulgent language. Show me please in practical or theological terms that this statement holds any water

[friendofJPII]

[i][quote name='hot stuff' post='1416802' date='Nov 9 2007, 09:48 PM']Really

Show me how

and not in any flowery self indulgent language. Show me please in practical or theological terms that this statement holds any water[/quote][/i]

There is no need to get so angry, hot stuff, really. This is a friendly discussion.

Prayer is a surge of the heart towards God, who is all truth, the author of the natural law. It unites us with the person of Christ. If someone is really in attune with the Spirit, they would not hold a viewpoint that contradicts natural law, if they did there would be great discontent within them. That's not to say, she doesn't "pray" on some level...I don't know...but her spiritual life is not well-formed obviously. It is also very possible that she is speaking about faith matters to win Brownie points with more socially-conservative voters...now again, I'm not saying that she [i]is[/i], I'm saying that is [i]possible,[/i] because politicians often to such things...which is why Jesus said we would know them "by their fruit." And her fruit stinks!

Edited November 10, 2007 by friendofJPII

[Jaime]

I agree with the idea that she is not bearing any fruit.

But I do take exception to the idea that we can surmise whether or not another person prays. The only thing critique that I could say about anyone (including me) is that (s)he isn't praying enough

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1416726' date='Nov 9 2007, 06:15 PM']y are so many of you so judgemental ??
its ignorant
judge not lest you be judged
if hillary confesses with her mouth jesus christ is lord and believes in her heart that he was raised from the dead SHE WILL BE SAVED ![/quote]

When someone is running for political office, they ask to have their actions to be judged.

The judging that Christ speaks of is different than this. There are places where the Scriptures tell us to scrutinize bishops because they will lead people... This is the same for civil leaders, we must judge if they are fit to lead. Hillary is not.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1416727' date='Nov 9 2007, 06:18 PM']WHY DO YOU CALL ME GOOD ?? NO ONE IS GOOD BUT GOD ALONE

none of us our good
Christ told us that
we can not be good until we die and are with Chrirst
we can stive to do good deeds and walk in love
but none of us are " good "[/quote]



First, Not writing about you.
Second, there are different context's of 'good'
Third, in this context it's to show that I have no reason to doubt him or his brother because they are good honest Catholics.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Lena' post='1416681' date='Nov 9 2007, 04:26 PM']I don't know who I'm voting for, but I do think this article is ridiculous.[/quote]

If you care about pleasing God, since you claim to be Catholic I assume you do, you would not vote for someone who is:[list=1]
[*]for abortion
[*]for same sex marriage
[*]for creating dependency on welfare
[*]wants to take God out of everything
[/list]Voter's Guide for Serious Catholics
[url="http://www.caaction.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=81&Itemid=72"]http://www.caaction.com/index.php?option=c...1&Itemid=72[/url]

US Bishops Statement
Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility
[url="http://www.usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/bishopStatement.html"]http://www.usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/b...pStatement.html[/url]

If you vote for someone who is anti-life over someone who is pro-life, you commit a mortal sin and should not take the Eucharist, until you are truely sorry for voting for a baby killer and plan not to do so again (after Confession of course)

If both are anti life, then one has to look at who will be more of a baby killer, then to the topic of Family... it would be a sin to vote for someone who is for same sex marriage over someone who is for protecting the family.... etc... Proportional Reasoning according to the Church, not our own liking.



God Bless,
ironmonk

Edited November 10, 2007 by ironmonk

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1416813' date='Nov 9 2007, 10:11 PM']I agree with the idea that she is not bearing any fruit.

But I do take exception to the idea that we can surmise whether or not another person prays. The only thing critique that I could say about anyone (including me) is that (s)he isn't praying enough[/quote]


yeah, I agree we can't tell if she's praying or not. I know liberals who pray....there is goodness in everyone. I pray every day for the conversion of Hillary and Rosie O'Donnell. I actually had more respect for Hillary when she acted like the self-proclaimed feminist that she is, the fact that she is trying play the moderate annoys me.

Edited November 10, 2007 by friendofJPII

[ironmonk]

The point has nothing to do with her praying or not praying....

The point is that she's a liar and telling people what they want to hear instead of what she really believes.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='1416825' date='Nov 9 2007, 10:33 PM']The point has nothing to do with her praying or not praying....

The point is that she's a liar and telling people what they want to hear instead of what she really believes.

God Bless,
ironmonk[/quote]

If there was is one thing we can sumise from the world of politics it is that politicians rarely portray their real personas. It is usually all an act. The persona my uncle portrayed to the the public and the man he really was were like the difference between Dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hyde.

Edited November 10, 2007 by friendofJPII

[Jaime]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='1416825' date='Nov 9 2007, 09:33 PM']The point has nothing to do with her praying or not praying....

The point is that she's a liar and telling people what they want to hear instead of what she really believes.

God Bless,
ironmonk[/quote]

Please demonstrate to me that you have concrete knowledge that Hillary doesn't pray. That she indeed is lying about this.

Otherwise you look foolish

[Socrates]

If Hillary prays or is Christian, it has had absolutely zero effect on her political actions. She has a 100% pro-abortion voting record in the Senate.

Of course, every politician likes to "get religion" before an election.

Edited November 10, 2007 by Socrates

[catholicinsd]

When you post things like "Hillary is Evil" nobody benefits.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1416892' date='Nov 9 2007, 11:48 PM']If Hillary prays or is Christian, it has had absolutely zero effect on her political actions. She has a 100% pro-abortion voting record in the Senate.

Of course, every politician likes to "get religion" before an election.[/quote]


So then you agree that it was pointless to start this thread?


Good

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1416938' date='Nov 10 2007, 09:46 AM']So then you agree that it was pointless to start this thread?
Good[/quote]

I don't think it was pointless. Religon, or at least religious sentiments will play a role in the campaign. These sentiments, in light of the candidates stance on moral issues, will be the point of discussion---and I think it is an important discussion to have.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1416839' date='Nov 9 2007, 10:11 PM']Otherwise you look foolish[/quote]
It is usually foolish to make assumptions about another person's spiritual life, especially when based on a partisan opinion piece.

Notice how few people commented on the article that presents a different side?[quote][url="http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html"]Hillary's Prayer: Hillary Clinton's Religion and Politics[/url]

News: For 15 years, Hillary Clinton has been part of a secretive religious group that seeks to bring Jesus back to Capitol Hill. Is she triangulating—or living her faith?[/quote]

Edited November 10, 2007 by tgoldson