Katolico Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Is praise and worship appropriate for the liturgy? If yes, why? If no, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinner Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I thought the liturgy was praise and worship? But you have to take into consideration I thought a pew was something that smelled funny too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katolico Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 It should be clarified that by "Praise & Worship" it is meant that genre of Contemporary Christian Music that originated and is popular amongst Evangelicals and appears at an increasing number of Novus Ordo masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiritual_Arsonist Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 It should be clarified that by "Praise & Worship" it is meant that genre of Contemporary Christian Music that originated and is popular amongst Evangelicals and appears at an increasing number of Novus Ordo masses. OK. The breakdown of liturgucal music is this IN ORDER OF PREFERENCE OF HOLY MOTHER CHURCH: 1 - Gregorian Chant 2 - Polyphony / Pipe Organ. It seems "praise and woship" does not even fit into the spirit of the Liturgy. Chant is the best and is to be given "pride and place in the Liturgy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiritual_Arsonist Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Take a look at www.cin.org/vatiidoc.html Sacrosantum Concilium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.SIGGA Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I'm usually the Pm lefty when it comes to stuff like this, but I don't think it should be a part of the Mass - not because I'm against instruments or modern music but because it is too dangerous in becoming the "Highlight" of the Liturgy instead of the Word and the Eucharist. My parish reconciled this in an amesome way. We have the Rosary and the Angelus before Mass and Sacred Music during the Liturgy and after Mass is over we have Contemporary Praise&Worship and a youth/young adult Fellowship. In the end it works out and everybody's happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy the Ninja Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Sigga, that sounds like a wonderful compromise. Would that more parishes were like yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aByzantineCatholic Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Meijer, You said, OK. The breakdown of liturgucal music is this IN ORDER OF PREFERENCE OF HOLY MOTHER CHURCH: 1 - Gregorian Chant 2 - Polyphony / Pipe Organ. It seems "praise and woship" does not even fit into the spirit of the Liturgy. Chant is the best and is to be given "pride and place in the Liturgy." AMEN! AMEN! again I say AMEN BROTHER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 I said "no" because, as I understand it, Vatican II wanted as much tradition retained as could be, except for the changes made. I have heard that LifeTeen Masses have a special allowance to have Praise and Worship music and I suppose that if the Magisterium approves, then it's okay. However, I've also been to a LifeTeen Mass in which the congregation did not kneel during the Consecration (which really, really ticked me off). I heard that they had permission for this, too, but then I read that they didn't. However, the problem with Praise and Worship music is that some of it can be theologically inaccurate (similar to Amazing Grace, which, despite the general message and the melody's beauty, does not provide an accurate account of the Catholic view of grace and its actions in relationship to faith and salvation) and that a good deal of it relates only to the Christian emotional side and not the intellectual, doctrinal side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morostheos Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Where you draw the line between normal contemporary Catholic hymns (such as those in the Gather hymnal) and Contemporary Christian music can get really blurry. I can't say either yes or no on this issue, instead I would say it depends. There are many P&W songs that are not at all appropriate for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, but there are also some that are very appropriate. For example, "Lord Prepare me to be a Sanctuary" as a presentation hymn, etc. It's all about reverence and salience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.SIGGA Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 I think the biggest message Churches need to get across is that: 1. Praise&Worship Contemporary/Gospel music is GREAT for Christians to praise God! Plus it sort of transforms the music culture. A lot of my ym kids from all different races and backgrounds give up their secular music once they get into praise&worship and gospel. 2. It's just not meant to be a part of the Mass, which is a prayer, a long one and our greatest prayer, but all in all it's still a prayer. Like the Rosary for example; I wouldn't break into "Our God is an amesome God" after completing each Mystery. The reason why is the Rosary isn't supposed to be prayed that way. 3. There is a time and a place for everything and that genre of Praise deserves it's own place. If it is a priority for the parish to have it in the Mass, save the clapping for the Recessional hymn - There is an African American parish I go to sometimes that does this and the Recessional Song leads into their Gospel/Praise after mass. The important thing is that Mass was reverent and preparing the people to recieve Jesus, and after Mass has ended and they can still culturally express themselves, and it takes up all the extra time that it would have if it were actually in the Mass, and people who don't feel comfortable praying that way aren't forced to sit through it so they can hear the Word and recieve the Eucharist. The Church allows certain ethnic/cultural minorities with their conversion to the Catholic faith the permission to incorporate some of their cultural expressions into the Mass, but there is specific reason behind that and in their specific situations don't take away from the Word and the Eucharist - it's not meant to make Mass more ''lively,'' but to help them make a total transition into the Faith. The tendency to shun Modern Christian expressions of Praise (music, dance, art, etc) I think is one of the reasons some priests are daring to be different and allowing these Modernism to take over the Mass. If a line is drawn of what is acceptable at given times I think this issue will be resolved in all the parishes and everyone - Traditionals, Minorities, Charismatics, LifeTeen, etc - can all be happy . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydigit Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Christian Praise&Worship/Contemporary/Gospel/Rock/Country/Pop/Rap/Alternative/Metal(i dunno about heavy metal though) is freaking awesome! ..outside of Mass. (mods, time to join threads?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldbug16 Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 [quote name='Raphael' post='123841' date='Feb 19 2004, 11:14 PM']I said "no" because, as I understand it, Vatican II wanted as much tradition retained as could be, except for the changes made. However, the problem with Praise and Worship music is that some of it can be theologically inaccurate (similar to Amazing Grace, which, despite the general message and the melody's beauty, does not provide an accurate account of the Catholic view of grace and its actions in relationship to faith and salvation) and that a good deal of it relates only to the Christian emotional side and not the intellectual, doctrinal side.[/quote] This is what I say, only Raphael said it so much better. [quote name='M.SIGGA' post='123942' date='Feb 20 2004, 02:25 AM']I think the biggest message Churches need to get across is that: 1. Praise&Worship Contemporary/Gospel music is GREAT for Christians to praise God! Plus it sort of transforms the music culture. A lot of my ym kids from all different races and backgrounds give up their secular music once they get into praise&worship and gospel. 2. It's just not meant to be a part of the Mass, which is a prayer, a long one and our greatest prayer, but all in all it's still a prayer.[/quote] Yeah, I definitely think that if people want to sing praise and worship at youth rallies and whatever, then go ahead! I'm not a huge fan of it myself, but if they want to sing it at other places outside of church, then that's great! However, it does not belong in Church. They have the 80s' Praise and Worship at my parish with guitars and drums and everything and personally, it's very hard for me to pay attention to the Mass when it sounds like a rock band playing. (In my parish it would be a baaaad rock band playing but I'll not get into that. It makes me upset.) So basically, just as long as its not during Mass, I'm okay with it, but [i]for[/i] Mass is not appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deo Iuvente Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 I don't think it fits with mass, and I love P&W music. I once went to a mass with it when I first started listening to it, but it just didn't seem to fit. It seemed like someone was trying to force something in that just does'nt belong there. after mass,fine. Maybe even before, if it's conductive to prayer. But not during. Personally, I rather like Gregorian chant and choral music when appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 (edited) Why do we keep discussing this? What so freaking difficult about sticking with what the Church says about liturgical music? If there is some "praise and worship" music (which is a very broad category that spans many genres of music) that suits the purpose of Mass as defined by the Church, then what's the argument with using it? Some P&W comes straight from the Psalms. The main problem, usually, is the instrumentation. What you need is someone who knows how to arrange and write music to adapt the popular song to instruments that are suitable for Mass. Sheesh. This topic has been run around for two years or more around here. Edited July 1, 2008 by LouisvilleFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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